Talk:John Jefferson

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Requested move 20 August 2024

It has been proposed in this section that John Jefferson be renamed and moved to John Jefferson (American football).

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John Jefferson → John Jefferson (American football) – There is no clear primary topic.

Page views:

John Jefferson (American football) Page views in last 30 days: 2,011
John Wayles Jefferson Page views in last 30 days: 2,894

John Wayles Jefferson is commonly referred to as John Jefferson (eg.)

Pinging @Gonzo fan2007 and Bagumba: from prior discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League § Move of John Jefferson to John Jefferson (American football player) Daask (talk) 12:29, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose as unnecessary disambiguation. "Wayles" already disambiguates this from John Jefferson and a simple hatnote at the top of the page could point people in the right direction. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:57, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The click data of John Jefferson does not show John Wayles Jefferson as being among the top outgoing clicks[1] (note that previously, the hatnote explicitly listed "John Wayles Jefferson".) The source mentioned in the nom refers mostly to "John W. Jefferson". It does not appear readers are looking for John Wayles Jefferson by entering the shorter "John Jefferson".—Bagumba (talk) 16:45, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support people do not normally use middle names so we can't assume people know to even if Wayles is commonly referred to with this middle name. Just because an article has a different title and as such doesn't need to be qualified doesn't mean this one is primary just because no natural disambiguation exists for this one. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:19, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... people do not normally use middle names so we can't assume people know to ...: There's no need to assume. The click data shows no traffic from John Jefferson to John Wayles Jefferson.[2] People are not mistakenly entering "John Jefferson". —Bagumba (talk) 17:28, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:NCP people are expected to be titled without middle names unless they are in common usage (and many readers probably won't know to do so) and many people get to Wikipedia articles via Google etc so that may expain why there are few clicks. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:40, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are free to open a separate RM on John Wayles Jefferson if you believe it should be parenthetically disambiguated. But there is no indication from actual data (as opposed to assumptions) that the football player being at John Jefferson is causing any inconvenience to our readers in finding the one with middle name Wales. —Bagumba (talk) 17:52, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I don't think that outgoing links are a very good measure here. Both Wikipedia's own search pages and external search engines are fairly good these days at helping direct people to the correct page without readers needing to click on hatnote links. Further, there are several other people of lesser notability named John Jefferson (disambiguation). I didn't mention it in the proposal because I thought it sufficient to demonstrate that there is no primary topic. Daask (talk) 18:48, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]