Talk:John Randolph (politician)

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Requested move 30 December 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus after being open for 3 weeks, there appears to be divided thoughts, without any forward momentum in discussion taking place. Since the interest is low, closing for now. Perhaps a discussion on the talk page should take place to go over the various alternative naming options, and then, once decided, a new requested move could be placed. (Closing this contested move which has already been relisted and no clear direction is being made. With no additional discussion, I am closing this. If you object, feel free to revert this close.)(non-admin closure) Tiggerjay (talk) 18:37, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

John Randolph (politician) → Sir John Randolph – This is a bit tough. We don't typically use honorifics in titles unless the person is ubiquitously known with them or if there aren't better options for disambiguation. This seems to be the latter. (politician) is insufficient disambiguation from a few of the other entries at John Randolph. (Virginia) and (colonial politician) would have the same problems. Since part of this John Randolph's claim to notability is being the only colonial American to receive a knighthood, I think this is a good case for returning to the honorific as natural disambiguation. If not, the more opaque John Randolph (politician, born 1693) is probably the best bet. Pinging JackofOz, who moved to the present title back in April. --BDD (talk) 14:40, 30 December 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 12:25, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose there's a military man of the 14th century by this name. And this request uses the honorific. Instead just use more disambiguatory terms. John Randolph of Tazewell Hall would work, and complements John Randolph of Roanoke -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 05:43, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and Move instead to John Randolph (Virginia politician, born 1693), our usual option when we can't disambiguate using anything else, keeping the Virginia in to be a bit more specific. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:24, 6 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Relisting comment. There seems a clear consensus to move away from the current title, but opinion is divided on what alternative should be used. Jenks24 (talk) 12:25, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support as WP:NATURALDIS. Also, Wikipedia:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility)#British nobility paragraph 4 says: "Titles of knighthood such as Sir and Dame are not normally included in the article title[...]. However, Sir may be used in article titles as a disambiguator when a name is ambiguous and one of those who used it was knighted." There is no other John Randolph listed in the index to Shaw's Knights of England (p. 189). I assume the "military man of the 14th century" to whom the unregistered user refers is John Randolph, 3rd Earl of Moray, whose notice in The Complete Peerage (vol. 9, p. 170) makes no mention of a knighthood. Opera hat (talk) 20:18, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.