Talk:John Stainer

John Stainer has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: October 25, 2013. (Reviewed version).

Biography: Musicians

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GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:John Stainer/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 15:32, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Cwmhiraeth, I'll be glad to take this one. Comments to follow over the next 1-3 days. Thanks as always for your great contributions. -- Khazar2 (talk) 15:32, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for taking on this review. As it happens, John Stainer was my great grandfather, and my family co-operated with Jeremy Dibble when he wanted to write the biography. We were all given signed copies of the book when it was published. I didn't know much about him before but I know a bit more now! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:20, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Very cool. -- Khazar2 (talk) 19:43, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just a few initial comments here; so far this looks like your usual quality work and ripe for promotion. Let me know what you think.

I'm not sure about British usage, but in US English, "deputised" means to make someone a deputy, rather than to act as a deputy. Does this need to be reworded?

In British English "deputised for" means "acted as someone's deputy in his absence". Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:20, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Stainer became the youngest ever successful candidate for the Bachelor of Music degree at Oxford" -- is this also covered by the Dibble p. 52 citation?

Added extra reference. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:20, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Stainer's skill on the organ was much respected, and he was regarded as "the finest organist Oxford had seen in many generations"." -- is this quotation on Dibble 73? The inline citation is far enough down that you might add a duplicate one at the end of this sentence.

Added extra reference. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:20, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

""I am thankful he has been spared long illness and the weariness of old age, which he always dreaded"" -- is this on Dibble 309? Again, another citation might be added, as that one's rather distant

Added extra reference. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:20, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

" His evening canticles (Magnificat and Nunc dimittis) are occasionally revived" -- an 1891 source seems awfully old for this statement; it might be rewritten to reflect the age of the claim. -- Khazar2 (talk) 16:15, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Removed the statement as 1891 was 10 years before Stainer's death which makes it of little relevance. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:20, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Checklist[edit]

I missed an obvious one on my first pass--"According to Peter Charlton's biography, Sir Arthur Sullivan's tribute to Stainer was blunt and memorable: "He is a genius"." needs a page number.

This quote pre-dated my involvement with the article and I could not find a reliable source for it, so I have removed it. I have added the US copyright tag for the image. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:32, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Prose is excellent. Dibble source unavailable for copyright spotchecks, but happy to accept in good faith from extremely experienced nominator.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	~~One quotation needs citation (above)~~
	2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Few sources seem available on Stainer, but comparison to Cyberhymnal site and Who's who in references suggest major aspects are covered.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	~~File:SirJohnStainer.JPG needs a tag for its US copyright status also~~
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.	Pass as GA

Sullivan's "genius" quote[edit]

If you look at this Google Books link followed by this one, you'll find the sentence with the quotation of what Alcock said that Sullivan said after hearing Stainer improvise, on page 79 of "John Stainer and the musical life of Victorian Britain". Hope this helps. Bencherlite ^Talk 12:35, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Bencherlite-- I tried getting to it through snippet view, but couldn't see the whole thing. Oddly, your views aren't bringing up the whole thing for me either--maybe because I'm outside of the UK? Anyway, I'd say you should feel free to restore if you can see it well enough to be confident about it. Cheers, -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:51, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I can only get it through snippet view too, which is why I needed to give two links for different parts of the sentence! Bencherlite ^Talk 12:54, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you both. I have added back the quote to the article and referenced the page concerned with the url of one of the snippets. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:03, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Irrelevant Illustration[edit]

I propose for deletion the picture of the interior of St Paul's Cathedral. As can be read in the pic's file, the artists both died before Stainer's lifetime (pre-1840) so not chronologically relevant to it.Cloptonson (talk) 08:50, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with what you say and don't object to it being removed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:45, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Former British Empire - Inappropriate; Unnecessary[edit]

I have altered the relevant short section to linked "Anglican Communion". Because a) the latter is factually correct b) it avoids hurting sensitivities about Anglicans really being Protestant (we are certainly not Lutherans) and also what does "Former British Empire" mean? e.g. Crucifixion is regularly performed in Canada, USA and Hong Kong inter alia. Hope others will be understanding about this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cylicodiscus (talk • contribs) 20:13, 29 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:John Stainer/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

There is a lot of room for imrovement here. I rated the article as stub, because the prose of the article is too short, and there are no inline citations; I also see stubby paragraphs.--Yannismarou 17:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 17:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 20:22, 29 April 2016 (UTC)