Talk:Johnston Atoll

Status as of July 14th

It appears that it is again for sale - [1]. At least, I see no signs that it is not for sale. That link, as well as links to several Wikipedia articles, were featured in the website memepool. --Reverend Loki 00:42, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Annexed by the United Kingdom?

Was Johnston Atoll ever annexed by the United Kingdom? I have read a map from 1899 that suggests that the US and UK claims were in conflict at that time, such as was the Palymara Atoll claim (where the UK annexed in 1889, but the US objected later in 1911).

Probably need more sources but seems that a British citizen named the island and the original discoverers did not claim it. It was resolved though Hawaii also claimed it. Source info from an excerpt of study of the island (by the Smithsonian?) and the original needs to be located. How resolution was actually reached between the US and the King with the US administration of Hawaii at that time is a controversial subject I an not keen to enter. See below topic re: Claims of Native Hawaiians.

Johnvr4 (talk) 16:25, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

I could not find any more info on the UK claims at Johnston except except where a Hawaiian delegation filed a compliant in London after a visit by an English ship.Johnvr4 (talk) 14:25, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Chemicals

The US are incinerating or dumping (not sure) the waste left over from decomissioning thier chemical weapons and nerve agents there —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.160.17 (talk) 23:04, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Incineration completed in 2000Johnvr4 (talk) 16:27, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

No, it's not for sale.

The listing that's linked to is a stale "deep link", that remains, even though the listing was withdrawn. If you look at the overall list of properties for sale from the GSA Property Disposal folks, this is not one of them. I actually called GSA and verified this. --Risacher 17:03, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

That's because they took it off the market. But the fact that the government did plan to sell it at one point is what drew me to learn more about Johnston Atoll. I wonder if mentioning this in the article would be a good idea. 125.215.150.94 (talk) 14:14, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

It was for sale though it was withdrawn. Apparently this is sometimes done to gauge interest in a surplus property whether they actually intend to sell it or not. When a contaminated property is sold, the owner takes some responsibility. Reportedly they received some offers. It has been included in the entry.Johnvr4 (talk) 16:35, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposed WikiProject

There is now a proposed WikiProject dealing with the area of Micronesia at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Micronesia. Any interested parties should add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest in this project to try to officially start it. Thank you. Badbilltucker 21:22, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Locator map

This article needs a locator showing the position of the territory in the world. -- Beland 01:06, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Souvenirs

I've removed the mock official gear, which is not abt the topic. It may be suitable for some article on fake plates, stage flags, etc., with proper verifiability, but these sources cannot be described as "reputable" without something that is hard to imagine, a verifiable source for that. (How does an editor use the sources to verify the statements? Apparently some self-perceived serious collector believes these sites assertions, including the implication that each vouches for its own reputability and maybe those of the other two. If on the other hand the Christie's or even Antiques Roadshow sites vouch for them, then show us, but i for one am too skeptical of their interest in this crap to make the effort; let someone who disagrees do that leg work.)
This was how the caption on the flag at Flag of Johnston Atoll began:

Flag designed by

Notable info abt JA?? No. Self-promotion? Either that or a BLP violation, since the appearance of such self-promotion could serve to make the person whose name i removed look tacky.

I removed this abt the plates:

There have been a number of supposed "Johnston Atoll" license plates issued for sale on-line. According to reputable license plate collectors, these were made as souvenirs and were never officially issued. Johnston Atoll only had one road, which made the use of official license plates unnecessary. Official vehicles had either U.S. Government license plates or a Department of Defense registration number painted on the front and rear of the vehicle. Passenger vehicles had plates from the original place of registration (often Hawaii).

But i've unlk'd the URLs, for the three pointlessly included .com sites, that sound like they deal in at least (plausibly) real plates:
www.worldlicenseplates.com/world/PA_JOHN.html www.pl8s.com/JDF/JDT.htm www.plateshack.com/y2k/Johnston_Atoll/johnatolly2k.html and they could be here as lk spam
--Jerzy•t 04:57, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I moved the flag in the entry and modified the caption. In multiple films such as this youtube film (just before one minute mark) taken of the Island while it was in operation, this flag is flying below the U.S. flag on the base's flagstaff. The flag was in obvious regular use at this base. Whether this flag was officially sanctioned or who sanctioned or when it is difficult to determine from the film(s). Perhaps the removed info, name, date, background, etc. of the designer would clarify. Original link is dead. Any more info would helpJohnvr4 (talk) 16:48, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Contamination?

The chemical storage at Johnston Island (Atoll) was VX, GB, Agent Orange (druns burry at the north side of the Island near of the water plant) and other chemicals. Those station at the Island their were expose to the agent orange thru the water plant because the plant only remove the salt of the water from the ocean and nothing else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.77.151 (talk) 19:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I lived there for 5 years, witnessing the end of the chemical destruction mission and the destruction of the JACADS plant facility. The most harmful weaponized and containerized chemicals on JI were VX, Sarin, Mustard, and Dioxin Orange ("Agent Orange"). There were other chemicals on the island for other purposes - to name just a few there were the chlorine gas and sodium hydroxide they used to make their own chlorine bleach (to wash down contaminated areas within the JACADS building), the railroad-tanker car sized tanks of propane they used for the incinerators, and the massive twin fuel storage tanks at the Petroleum, Oils and Lubricants (POL) Yard that contained JP5 jet fuel and MoGas respectively. There was more to be sure. But the Dioxin Orange was at the Northwest corner of the island, in a gated area, about as far as you could get from the water plant while still on land. Note that due to the island being located in the tradewinds, the Western end of the island was downwind, or "downrange" in the local lingo (unless a meteorological event changed the wind direction, which was *very* rare). The barrels of the agent in the fenced area were not buried, although they were old enough that they had developed leaks and had minor leakage into "groundwater". This was well known and monitored for. Because of the downwind nature of the location, and also due to wave action, no agent should have migrated to the water plant. And because the island was under constant scrutiny by the US Environmental Protection Agency (damned turtles and birds), we definitely would have been told if there was such an event. 108.39.67.224 (talk) 16:39, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

I renamed this topic and have made a section for Contamination and cleanup activities on the island.Johnvr4 (talk) 16:50, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Weapons testing.

This might need cleanup: 'several scientific sounding rockets'. So the rockets weren't actually scientific, just scientific sounding? There might be a better way to clarify what the rockets were for. (Taking soundings?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.192.210.229 (talk) 10:33, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

ClarifiedJohnvr4 (talk) 16:50, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

4 or 5 islands?

The article says four islands, but the map shows five (the fifth one is just to the west of Sand Island). Which is correct? The Britannica says four. Kdammers (talk) 08:27, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

That bit is connected to the rest of Sand Island, as be be seen here: File:Johnston-Atoll-DF-ST-92-02431.JPEG and http://www.qsl.net/k3j/images/johnston_atoll_90.jpg. Rwessel (talk) 09:13, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Administration

Several U.S Government Agencies have administered the island (mostly various branches of U.S. Defense and military) such as Navy, Air Force, Army, Defense-DOD, Energy-DOE, Interior-DOI, Defense Nuclear Agency-DNA. They should be included. It needs more after 1958.Johnvr4 (talk) 16:52, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Mostly complete.Johnvr4 (talk) 18:34, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Reverted edit

I just reverted the last edit, which had replaced very nearly the entire article with text from the Chemical Corps article. It was just copied and pasted, no formatting or anything. I can only assume it was vandalism, I can't see any other explanation for it. Turnagra (talk) 19:24, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

'Johnston Atoll or Johnston Island or Kalama Atoll / Island

My under standing is that the terms were/are used interchangeably. Sources indicate that they are used interchangeably and to not to mention the alternate naming in the entry is going to confuse rather than clarify. The entire area is the coral Atoll but so is Johnston Island itself. The island has been extensively modified and it is probably now an (mostly artificial) island rather than only a coral Atoll. Kalama was the name given by native people. Though controversial subject, they could have a stronger claim to the island than the this entry can explore.Johnvr4 (talk) 15:47, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

I presume the above comment was made as the result of an edit I made relating to confusion over the interchangable use of the term island and atoll, these certainly do not mean the same thing and need to be used appropriately. The example I fixed said something like "radiatation was spread over the Atoll and the Lagoon" this is nonsence as the lagoon is already covered by the word Atoll.

ie the Atoll is the entirity of the enclosing reef and the enclosed lagoon, and rather incidently including any islands/islets that are also above sea level. The article is still confused in several places relating to this - which I will fix.

As an aside I moved Kalama from the initial sentence because it was written as Kalama Island and the title is about the Atol as a whole, I actually have no problem with putting this back at the start of the lead - as I suspect polynesian or melanesian explorers would be naming the Atoll rather than the island itself. But some sort of reference to this would be good. Andrewgprout (talk) 05:55, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Perfect. Thank you.Johnvr4 (talk) 17:37, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Native Hawaiian claims to the Atoll

How the claims to Johnston atoll was resolved is a little murky. Perhaps it was by a solid and fair treaty or agreement with the King of Hawaii. More sources are needed to make a determination. Eventually, after the sentence about Guano Islands Act in the 1890s I may add a line about the US annexing the Hawaiian islands during the Spanish-American war. The reason this may be added is that The United States had, in 1826 and after, recognized Hawaii as a sovereign nation in its own right, and imposed the usual import tariffs on sugar coming from the islands. See also the Hawaiian sovereignty movement. At a later point, Hawaii (and or U.K.) had a claim to the Atoll which was evidently resolved.

The Guano Islands Act has additional language about claims of ownership and the timing of the act is key. In short, The US occupied the neutral independent sovereign nation of Hawaii in wartime during the Spanish-American war, took over and never left. On November 23, 1993, President Clinton signed the Apology Resolution or United States Public Law 103-150, acknowledging that the United States overthrow of the legitimate government of Hawaii was illegal and that that the Hawaiian people never surrendered their sovereignty. (also In 2009, the U.S. Congress passed a similar resolution, S.J.Res. 14) Though nothing in the Joint Resolution is intended to serve as a settlement of any claims against the United States there many unanswered questions about past resolutions to territorial claims given the admissions by the US Government. I now have concerns with relying solely upon sources written without this knowledge. Johnvr4 (talk) 15:47, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

There was additional material in the source and I'm satisfied with the explanation for now. While researching the possible UK claim, I found more to build upon as sources on both subjects becomes available.Johnvr4 (talk) 14:29, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Times and Dates

There are some minor inconsistencies in this article regarding the use of either Johnston Island local time or UTC/GMT concerning the dates of nuclear testing at Johnston Island. I'll try to clean this up later when I have time. Anyone else is welcome to fix this problem if they can get around to it before I do. Most of the details can be found in the Operation Fishbowl article. X5dna (talk) 10:54, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Times and dates that so precise are not that important for this entry. Feel free to remove any discrepancy that is not worth correcting.Johnvr4 (talk) 19:05, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

area=13km2?

=1,300ha,,

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Neutrality

I guess you can call it a "successful" test if a bomb goes off, but calling a section on nuclear weapon tests, of all things, "Successes" and "Failures" does not make the article particularly neutral but rather point of view.

There are quite a number of other points of view imaginable than the military one - that of the environment for instance. From that point of view, these tests are nothing less than a success. They are, quite on the contrary, a complete catastrophe and an absolute failure on the part of human beings to take care of their world.

Maybe we can come up with more neutral captions for these sections than "Successes" and "Failures". --87.150.3.78 (talk) 10:14, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Edit Summery

I meant to say definitely not start class, my mistake Helloimahumanbeing (talk) 19:35, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Nixon's visit to Johnston Atoll

I discovered some interesting video on Youtube of President Nixon visiting Johnston Atoll on his way to meet the USS Hornet and the crew of the Apollo 11. Air Force One landed on the runway and Nixon (and Secretary of State Kissenger) overnighted on the island before proceeding on Marine One helicopters to the Hornet the next day. Nixon came back and boarded AF1 for the flight home, though the Apollo 11 astronauts did not set foot on Johnston.

An interesting bit of history but I couldn't figure out where to put it in the article. Any ideas?

https://robertleemurphy.net/geography/apollo-11-and-johnston-atoll/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfFBeXDVOaY

Interesting but you are correct that the detail is probably not significant to the article. Andrewgprout (talk) 22:29, 22 November 2019 (UTC)