Talk:Judgment proof

The term is only used in the civil law context. It makes no sense to talk about a criminal law judgment because those are jail time and/or fines to the state. I suppose a prosecutor looking to score big fines might talk about a criminal defendant as being "judgment proof" if those fines can't be collected, but that seems more like the exception than the rule.

The reference to "illegal" conduct that was previously in this stub was wrong because contracts/tort cases usually involve conduct that's 100% legal. For instance, it's not "illegal" to breach a contract, but you can be sued for it.

"Judgment proof" is used informally to mean any defendant whom it would be futile to sue because you won't collect anything. This can be because they are immune (you can't win) or they don't have anything (even if you win, you can't collect), or they're bankrupt (they have some things, but the courts won't let you take those; I think bankrupt people get to keep their houses in many cases), or all of their assets are outside of the country (even if you win, you can't collect any of those because they're outside the reach of US courts)

As an informal term, it might also be used when you can collect a small portion of the judgment. For instance, if I sued you, won a $10,000 judgment, but you were only able to pay me $100. Even though I technically picked up $100, informally, people would say you were "judgment proof."

I think it also has a more formal meaning, in that at least some states recognize that some people are so poor they shouldn't have to pay debts. There are objective criteria in determining this (income and assets are measured against some scale). Judgments become debts (if I win a $1000 judgment against you, you're immediately in debt to me for $1000, I think). So its formal meaning is tied up in when debts can be collected. Its informal meaning is also tied to the question of when debts can be collected--if you can't collect a debt (such as a judgment), then they're judgment proof.

Obviously these thoughts are not yet coherent enough to put into the article directly.

Dherb 09:52, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I think a common example of being judgement proof is when you already have unpayable judgements against you, typically from the IRS or other government agencies. John Smith win a judgment against you, but has to get in line behind the IRS for his money (in other words, he'll never get anything). 131.118.44.83 (talk) 21:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)