Talk:Juventus FC/Archive 1

About the official name of the Society

The official name of the club is Juventus Football Club (Juventus FC), NOT FC Juventus, Juventus Turín/Torino or (only) Juventus.

La Juventus Football Club S.p.A. è una delle principali società di calcio professionistico a livello internazionale, con circa 21 milioni di tifosi in Europa e circa 10 milioni di tifosi in Italia (quasi un terzo degli appassionati di calcio).

http://www.juventus.com/it/societa/index.aspx?lml_language_id=0&trs_id=1207000

Rivalries and Controversy section

This section is extremely POV ChrisTheDude 10:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, I think it should be deleted. It looks like an article written with the only purpose of winding up the readers. It is not neutral, it cites only a couple of controversial episodes without demonstrating anything particularly interesting and it isn't readable and lacks conformity with Wikipedia standards.

It should not be deleted, but instead be rewritten. --Howard the Duck | talk, 15:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget that Wikipedia's purpose is to present verifiable facts in an encyclopedic fashion; Original research is not supposed to be part of any of the articles. The majority of this section is original research by Wiki's definition, which says that articles may not contain any unpublished data, arguments, or ideas, and may not contain any "new analysis or synthesis" of published data, arguments, or ideas, nor any information that is not directly related to the topic of the article (Juventus in this case). Almost everything in the section from "About 'controversial matches'..." until the paragraph about the scandal is original research, and a lot of it has little to do with Juventus; the paragraphs about the Roma goaltender and AC Milan in particular are pretty much irrelevant. That stuff belongs in a message board rant or a magazine editorial about general corruption in Italian football, not a factual, encyclopedic article. --Concerned Reader

Umm, Juventus have been dogged by controversy and now the persistent allegations are backed by evidence. They are even being threatened with relegation because of this. Of course this should be in the article. Does the truth hurt by any chance? Bombot 16:14, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I have edited the Rivalries section, so that there shouldn't be any reason for anyone to contest the neutrality of it. --- Tha Eastsydah 18:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I also deleted the whole Controversy section, since most of it didn't really make any sense and wasn't neutral at all anyway. --- Tha Eastsydah 21:48, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Sporting fraud against Juventus

Shouldn't there be some mention on the case of 'Sporting Fraud' brought against Juventus. --Debunct 04:19, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Maybe, but the case was originally thrown out and is still under appeal.

The Juventus physio was cleared of all charges.

Userbox

JUVThis user is a Juventus fan.

If anyone wants a Juve userbox for their userpage, I've made one. Bigdottawa 00:14, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

About this Article

1)The oficial name of the Barza is Futbol Club Barcelona (FC Barcelona), not "Barcelona FC" http://www.fcbarcelona.com/eng/home-page/home/home.shtml

2)The second championship in Europe (C2) is the UEFA (or European) CUP WINNER'S CUP, not "UEFA Winner's Cup". http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ecwc/index.html

3)Juventus FC have 11 official international trophies, is the second team in Italy, the second in Europe (with Liverpool FC), and the second in the world after Real Madrid (ESP), AC Milan (Ita), Independiente de Avellaneda and Boca Juniors (2 teams from ARG) with 15 trophies (record).

4)About the "Three Major European Tournaments", FC Barcelona NEVER has won the UEFA Cup (by U.E.F.A, since 1972), this spanish club has won the European Inter-Cities Fairs Cup (an european cup since 1958 from 1971, NOT recognized by U.E.F.A) 3 times. U.E.F.A recognized this honour (win the Three Major...) ONLY for 3 teams in Europe: Juventus FC (in 1985 / Targa U.E.FA GS Honour in 1987), AFC Ajax (in 1992) and FC Bayern Munich (in 1996).

In the article Juventus FC NOT exist NPOV (by ANTI-juve supporters). --Dantemateo 21:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Juventus in Europe

Is, historically, the third team, for performance, in the European Championships (UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE / EUROPEAN CUP, UEFA CUP WINNER´S CUP AND UEFA CUP period 1955-2006).

                          AP  d  MP   W   D   L  gf  ga   gd   B  Pts   
1.Real Madrid CF     Esp  48  - 378 215  67  96 794 412 +382  90  587
2.FC Barcelona       Esp  47  3 381 207  84  90 750 413 +337  77  575
3.Juventus FC        Ita  44  - 346 196  68  82 621 314 +307  73  533
4.FC Bayern München  Ger  37  - 304 165  73  66 582 309 +273  69  472
5.Milan AC           Ita  35  - 273 147  62  64 457 238 +219  60  416

And, historically, the fourth team, for performance, in the UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE / EUROPEAN CUP (1955-2006).

                          AP  MP   W   D   L  gf  ga   gd   B  Pts
1.Real Madrid CF     Esp  35 283 166  48  69 626 313 +313  72  452
2.FC Bayern München  Ger  22 198 107  49  42 372 195 +177  50  313
3.Milan AC           Ita  20 170  94  38  38 306 148 +158  45  271
4.Juventus FC        Ita  23 175  88  41  46 290 175 +115  42  259
5.Manchester United  Eng  16 160  88  38  34 320 164 +156  35  249

http://www.geocities.com/jfaugeras/uefac1allt.html Clasificación Histórica de los clubes en la Copa de Europa / Liga de Campeones de la U.E.F.A desde la temporada 1955-56 (en inglés).

http://www.geocities.com/jfaugeras/uefaallt.html Clasificación Histórica General de los clubes en los Torneos Oficiales organizados por la U.E.F.A desde la temporada 1955-56 (en inglés).

http://www.realmadrid.com/articulo/real_madrid_copa_europa_29051.htm See: "Clasificacion historica de equipos" (in Spanish).

http://www.uefa.com/footballEurope/Club=50139/competition=1/index.html See: "UEFA club competition record".

One cannot say "Juventus is the third ranked team in Europe", because that completely depends upon how you rank the teams. If for instance you decide that the main criteria is winning European Cups, then Juve are not in the top 5. The above historical league information borders on trivia, and probably shouldn't be included at all. If concensus does decide to include it, then it should be well referenced and it should be made clear what the ranking system is. aLii 12:48, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

For international trophies (only official trophies, NOT Inter-City, latin o Mitropa cups, NOT officials by UEFA or FIFA) ONLY Madrid, Milan, Independiente (all with 15) and Boca Jrs. (with 16, record), two european and two american football clubs, have more titles than Juve (with 11 official international titles).

If your criteria is only "European Champions Club' Cup" (now called UEFA Champions League), Juve is sixth or five in Europe. That is the fact! --Dantemateo 23:33, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Juventus in the World

Historically, the "Old Lady" is the 6th (in top-10) best football team for international palmares, all-time, in the world (world ranking from season 1955/56 to season 2005/06 of FIFA Official Tournaments).

http://www.universofutbol.com.ar/ranking/inicio.htm (in Spanish).

http://www.universofutbol.com.ar/ranking/ranking.htm (in Spanish).

http://www.universofutbol.com.ar/ranking/valordelospuntos.htm (DETAILS OF THE RANKING, in Spanish).

These rankings are as much subjective as objective and should not be used. There is no official world ranking for teams, and so one shouldn't imply that there is. aLii 12:51, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

The numbers are not liars! --Dantemateo 23:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

About "Rivalries and Controversy" section

This section is extremelly subjective and prejudicial. The author, without ANY proof, subjectively criticised Juventus as "the most hated" club in Italy. As the author pointed out that juve's "detractors mainly point the mysterious gap between Juve's national and international successes", it clearly shows the author has NO knowledge of juve's successes, and subjectively wrote this article based on the author's own prejudice. Juventus FC, WITH 11 OFFICIAL international titles in his palmares, IS 3rd ranking for performance in the European Championships in period of 1955-2006 (all-time), and 4th in the Champions league/euro cup in similar period, also with two Toyota Cup winnings Juventus is one of most success club internationally.

About the "most hated" definition, even if I feel it is probably true, I changed the sentence to "most controversial". About the "mysterious gap", I removed the adjective "mysterious", but I cannot feel to have to power to remove all the sentence, as Juventus is by far the most winning team in number of Italian leagues (28, 29 in the near future, against the 17 of AC Milan), but has won the Champions League only two times, like Inter Milan, against the 6 of AC Milan. --Angelo 23:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

That's true, but you seem to forget that in the last 10 years Juventus has reached four Champions League finals, winning once and has won a Toyota cup and a European supercup. Wile probably being less effective in Europe than in Italy, one can not state that Juventus fails to succeed in Europe due to the lack of support from, referees. That's an subjective statement which fails to comply to the standards of wikipedia and, imho, only helps to create confusion and maybe anger among the readers.

• Of the article:

Doping accusations

In 1998, former A.S. Roma manager Zdeněk Zeman accused Juventus physicians of doping its players from 1993-94 to 1997-98 seasons. After several years of official inquiries and 2 trials by UEFA and FIGC, the case was dismissed in late December 14, 2005 for statute of limitations, and the Juventus physician Riccardo Agricola has been cleared of all the doping charges due to the statute of limitations. (The substances in question were Erythropoietin, legal in sports medicine and used frequently among cyclists, but was prohibited until the 2000-01 season by the World Anti-Doping Agency, and, principally, creatine, which is considered an athletic legal supplement and has never been prohibited by WADA and COI).

Libyan shareholders

Libyan leader's Muammar Gaddafi's family, has since 2002 held a 7.5 percent stake of Juventus shares through the Libyan Arab Foreign Investment Company (LAFICO).

And the sole Official Sponsor is Tamoil, an oil company based in the Netherlands and set up by the Libyan state.

Is possible the doping case of 1994-1998 with NOT PROHIBITED substances (creatine IS NOT prohibited and EPO, prohibited SINCE 2001)????????????

Is controvertial Tamoil?????????? Why??????????

Juventus F.C. is the only aticle with controversy section OF EN.WIKI... IS MISSION of WIKI????? WHY???????

NPOV??????????? --Dantemateo 20:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

In regards to the breif mention that juve are disliked, virtually every fan respects the team and there achivements, but most hate the club, not just other italian fans. The reason why can be found out with a little research and worded in a neutral manner. Shithot 20:58, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

About "Mysterious Gap"

Juventus FC has won the UEFA Champions League (C1) only 2 times (1985 and 1996) and has been 5 times UCL's runner-up, IT'S TRUE, but Juve HAS IN HONOURS (called "albo d'oro") 11 Official International Trophies (for number, 2nd in Italy and Europe and 3th in the world) INCLUDING ALL Official Tournaments for an club recognized by U.E.F.A and by F.I.F.A (it's the UNIQUE case in Europe and the only case around the world), the European Grand Slam: C1; C2 & C3 (UNIQUE case between ALL italian clubs and the first case in Europe), and 2 Toyota-Intercontinental Cup (1985 and 1996): by far, the most important trophy in Planet Football for a club by FIFA; against 15 International Trophies of AC Milan (including 4 UEFA Super Cup, this IS NOT major cup) and 7 International Titles of FC Internazionale Milano (4 of these titles winned in 1960's).

About these "mysterious gaps" (?) mainly pointed by tifosi (principally ANTI-Juve), the people NOT HAVE CONDIDERED other case, BY FAR, more evident and more criticised in the Planet Football, for example:

1. In Argentina, CA River Plate, considered "one of the most great clubs around the world" and "The winner of The Century" by IFHHS, has won the national League 32 times (national record by far) but has won the Libertadores of America Cup only 2 times for a total of ONLY 5 International Trophies (4th between connational clubs), alike CA Vélez Sarsfield and Estudiantes de La Plata (Estudiantes de La Plata, with 3 national league winnings, has won the Cup 3 times in 1960's, CA Boca Juniors, with 21 national league winnings, 5 times and CA Independiente de Avellaneda, with 14 national league winnings, 7 times -record in the Cup- for a total of 5 and 15 International Trophies, respectly).

2. In Portugal, Sport Lisboa e Benfica has won the national league 31 times (national record) but has won the UEFA Champions League only 2 times in 1960's with Eusebio (and these are THE ONLY International Trophies of this club, for that Benfica is not member of the G-14 group). Futebol Clube do Porto, the archirrival club of SL Benfica with 21 national titles, has won the UCL 2 times too, but this team has 6 International Trophies (with similar honours and historical performance in european competitions of england's Manchester United FC, "other great club in the world", with ONLY 5 International Titles in honours, 3 of these titles conquered with Sir Alex Fergusson in 1990's).

3. In Brazil, CR Flamengo (by far, the most popular and one of the most greats brazilian clubs) is the most winner club in number of national championship with 5 titles in "Brasileirao", against 3 of Sao Paulo Futebol Clube, but has won the Libertadores of América Cup ONLY 1 time (for a total of 3 International Titles), against 3 of Sao Paulo FC (for a total of 10 International Titles).

4. In England, PRINCIPALLY, Arsenal FC, considered "an european great club" and "an english giant" has won the English Premier League 14 times (record, after Liverpool FC and Manchester United FC with 18 and 15 EPL, respectly) but has 1, ONLY 1 Official International Title in honours: 1 UEFA Cup Winner's Cup (and NEVER has played an UCL / European Cup's Semifinal since 1955 to 2006), against 3 International Titles (including 2 European Cup) of Nottingham Forest FC (with only 1 EPL in honours) today in English 3th divition; 3 International Titles of Chelsea FC (including 2 UEFA Cup Winner's Cup, with 2 EPL in honours) and 1 European Cup of Aston Villa FC (with 7 EPL in honours).

About "controversial matches" and the European officials (called "always objetives"), have showns against Juventus FC sometimes, too. In UEFA Champions league 1998's Armsterdam Final, the goal of Predrag Mijatovic (Real Madrid won 1-0 against Juventus FC) WAS in very evident off-side. In UEFA Champions League 2003's Manchester Final, Dida (AC Milan won 3-2 in PK against Juventus FC) was in criticised illegal position in the penalty shootout (0-0 in regular time), principally in the Paolo Montero and Marcelo Zalayeta's decisives penalty kick. In UEFA Champions League 2005's Quarter of Final is not considered an evident legal goal of Alessandro Del Piero, in Anfield Road, against Liverpool FC "for (hipotetic) off-side" (Liverpool won 2-1 against Juventus FC). Similar episode was around the UCL Semifinal with this team against an english team too, Chelsea FC (Liverpool won 1-0 for a POLEMIC goal).

NPOV?

• It is furthermore notable how AC Milan Juventus' rival number one, has never been accused of doping, referee corruption or even of simple "psychological pressure" on them, despite earning even more victories since Silvio Berlusconi's takeover of the society - and despite an evident "soft stance" in its favor by most referees.

soft stance? well I can't remember episodes pro-Milan like the famous Oliver Bierhoff goal, or the goal against Empoli or even the Iuliano penalty against Inter... I don't think making "all the same" is a good way of NPOV.

• This lack of accuses on press and television can be proof of Milan's fair play and high standards (curiouslly, AC Milan was relegated by the Football Federation, together with S.S. Lazio, because of a match fixing scandal in 1979-80 season, and played in consecuence, Serie B the following season), but more cynical observers point to the abject subservience shown by most Italian journalists towards Berlusconi, who was Prime Minister of Italy up to April, 2006.

and so?? managers aren't the same of 30 years ago man! wake up... =_= and for the newspapers...well have you ever read something about Berlusconi on an Italian paper? Usually it's an article about his height or his hair... =_=

If you're trying to say "well, yeah Juventus steals, but it's not the only one! It's all normal guys!" try again. --necronudist 17:15, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Similar episodes, for example, in 2004 in John Dahl Tommason (AC Milan) goals in many matchs, Dida in VERY EVIDENT off-side in penalty sootout in UCL 2003; the Ismael's "penalty" in Bayern-Milan match in Munich (for UCL 2005-06) or the "penalty" against Inzaghi in Parma-Milan, TODAY?

The managers steals, NOT the clubs, corporations o goverments.

And Juventus FC's managers (Moggi, Giraudo) AREN'T the same of all Juventus' history (since 1897, 8 Golden Baloon and 52 official titles: the most succesfull of Italy), man. Sixth of 10 newspapers (Gazzetta, etc), Mediaset SpA and RAI and many others in Italy are Berlusconi's propiety (official information). --dantemateo 19:21, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Well this isn't an answer. Berlusconi owns the majority of the italian newspaper, but the FACTS are that he is widely depicted as a bald dwarf. It's like saying: well, Galliani is the president of Lega so he will win all of the Serie A championships... how stupid =_=

And for the other episodes, I've cited WIDELY AMBIGOUS episodes, you can't compare the Inzaghi penalty against Parma (and for me it is a clear penalty) or that agains Bayern (which is more ambigous) with the Bierhoff goal who was a goal (to say it with Elio e Le Storie Tese) like the measures of Rocco Siffredi or the goal agains Empoli who was very similar, maybe 3/4 of Rocco. There are EXPLICIT FACTS and QUESTIONABLE FACTS, you can't compare them. I think you should use some more common sense. I repeat: there's lack of NPOV --necronudist 00:58, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

The corruption is generalized in Italian society since 1920's and/or the corruption in Italian football (since 1898) ARE NOT exclusive responsability/product of Juventus FC or since its foundation (the stance of the article). And "Milan's fair play...", with Il Totonero case INQUEST and PROVED in its history? Hmmmmmmmmmm... --dantemateo 19:41, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not saying that! I'm not saying that ONLY juventus steals, it's stupid. I'm saying that is ALSO stupid talking about other clubs in order to minizime Juventus responsabilities, and citing the Totonero case in an article who sould be about Juventus is stupid. It's like saying that all clubs steals so it isn't so bad doing this, and that AC Milan 30 years ago was in the Totonero scandal so it's strange that it didn't take part on this scandal (and we're seeing in these ours that in fact, AC Milan have some responsability). However, you don't want to understand (and my bad bad bad english doesn't help, I'm sorry) so it's dumb to go ahead. I just repeat that there's lack of NPOV. Who should judge, will judge. --necronudist 18:14, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Serie A penalties

Do not change the info box until it is annnounced what, if any penalties Juventus will face for the current scandal. I agree, it's likely that they will go down, but let's not jump the gun. Thanks! SirFozzie 05:55, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Changed some of the wording about Juventus' first season in Serie B so it reads better. The whole part about the scandal should probably be edited, since a lot has changed today. Genome82 19:41, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I think someone should edit the whole section about the scandal, a lot of events have unfolded since the sentence was given about a month ago. All the transfers should be edited especially. --- Tha Eastsydah 21:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Source Transfers (If they happen)

It seems as though some transfers may be imminent considering the current situation the club are in... but when/if they happen can we source them first please?.... earlier this month I had to remove a supposed Pavel Nedved transfer to AC Milan which hadn't even happened. - Deathrocker 15:00, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm a little perplexed that Zambrotta and Thuram are already listed as transferred to Barcelona. I've been following the affair pretty closely and I'm unaware of either transfer occurring. So I definitely agree that transfers need to be sourced - even from football365.com is better than nothing.--Alexio 05:00, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Only juventus.com, uefa.com and the club they go to are reliable source. fcbarcelona.com not announce yet. Matt86hk talk 05:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I see what you mean about the Zambrotta and Thuram deals, the two are only in negotiation stages, the deals are rumoured to be completed/confirmed next monday at the earliest, they shouldn't be marked down as leaving the club, until the transfers are complete... the negotiations could fall through by next week. - Deathrocker 12:06, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Fixed--Alexio 00:09, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Follow-up: now it's confirmed[[1]], but no word on the Juve webpage.--Alexio 00:39, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, here are all the transfers that were confirmed by Juventus' official website so far (NOT including loans) :

Adrian Mutu (to Fiorentina) €8m

Fabio Cannavaro (to Real Madrid) €20m

Emerson (to Real Madrid) €16m

Lilian Thuram (to Barcelona) €5m

Gianluca Zambrotta (to Barcelona) €14m

Zlatan Ibrahimović (to Inter) €24.8m

Patrick Vieira (to Inter) €9.5m

--- Tha Eastsydah 01:47, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

25 Scudetti (Not 27)

Juve can no longer claim 27 scudetti. They were recently stripped of 2, which means this article can no longer state that they have 27. While the verdict is under appeal it is rather unlikely that those 2 scudetti will be restored. Furthermore, I don't see any problem if someone wants to write something along the lines of "While Juve originally won 27 league titles, they were stripped of 2(insert years here) after the 2006 match-fixing scandal which also resulted in the club getting relegated to Serie B for the first time in its history.~~Kane 24 July 2006~~

No, it's 27, not 29. CapPixel 20:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Juve won 29 scudetti (2 in National Championship before Serie A; 25 in Serie A and the last 2, revocated); RECORD in Italy.--Dantemateo 21:09, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. My mistake, I was taking 4 scudetto away from Juve. They won 29 championships, they were stripped of 2 because of the match-fixing, leaving them with 27. My apologies.~~Kane 24 July 2006~~

When do Juventus' players get their new shirt numbers?

Does anyone know when Juventus' players get their new shirt numbers for the 2006/2007 season? Thank you. --- Tiago Heitor 23:12, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

http://www.lega-calcio.it/ita/btim_giocatori.shtml Matt86hk talk 00:49, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. --- Tiago Heitor 11:14, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

"corruption scandal"... needs triming

There is an entirely seperate article for all the full details of it; 2006 Serie A scandal, its way too long at the moment taking up most of the Juve article. The club has been around for over a hundred years, most of the article doesn't need to be centered on this year alone. - Deathrocker 00:48, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Is there a difference between the two?

What is the difference between the Lazio Regional Court appeal and the Civil Court appeal? Is the Lazio regional court the same thing as a Civil court?

Juventus filed an appeal at the Lazio regional court in a last effort to be reinstated into Serie A, but withdrew the appeal on August 31. In mid-August 2006, the start of the Serie A championship was postponed by two weeks to September 10. On Monday, August 21, 2006, it was announced that Juventus would be turning to a civil court. [13] [14]. However, on August 31 the club withdrew the civil court appeal.

--- Tha Eastsydah 23:09, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Top 10 clubs in the World?

I really don't like the link that backs up this claim. Whether the page is hosted by rsssf.com or not the system that league table is based upon has no basis in anything. For instance see the FAQ at the bottom of the page:

"1) Why you include all past Brazilian Competitions and don´t include past competitions of other countries?"

"Answer: Because the Brazilian Championship is very younger than the other national leagues. If I don´t include these Brazilian competitions, the Brazilian teams' position in the ranking would be inferior of the reality."

I think that the list is basically meaningless in any factual sense. It would be better to just list that Juventus have won 11 official international titles, and give a reference for that. This "top 10" claim really has to go (even though I agree that they probably would be in a notional "top 10") as FIFA has never published such as list (as far as I know). I'll leave this discussion for a week or so, and then probably remove the claim again if no-one else has. aLii 11:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. How can references in a Latin American magazine be any basis for establishing a top ten?? How about references in 4-4-2 for English clubs?? Ludicrous. BTW Rangers and Celtic dwarf these totals. Both have won European Competitions as well.

Sure? Why and WHERE SAYS "AFC Ajax" is, historically, a top 10 of the world??? only for Cruijff?????

Amsterdamsche Football Club Ajax (Euronext: AJAX) also referred to as Ajax Amsterdam, AFC Ajax, or simply Ajax (pronounced Ah-yahx), is a football club from Amsterdam, Netherlands. The club is historically one of the top-10 football clubs in the world

Juve has won 51 OFFICIAL (RECOGNIZED BY UEFA: references? uefa.com, figc.it and Juventus.com) titles (40 in Italy, absolute record of Italy and 11 in Europe -2nd best team, like Liverpool, after Real Madrid and Milan, with 15- and the world -3rd best team- after Boca with 16 titles, Milan, Madrid and Independiente, with 15. References? them official sites, conmebol.com and uefa.com).

Real Madrid, team of XX Century: http://www.fifa.com/events/playergala00/documents/Club.pdf ONLY FOR INFORMATION! --Dantemateo 01:39, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, maybe I should start the same conversation there. You have that point. However using the excuse of one bad article to say "well this article should be allowed to be just as bad" isn't very clever. List the numbers of titles and where Juve stands in the world (like you just did), but don't use that stupid rsssf.com reference - that's all I'm saying. aLii 07:05, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

It is removed from the Ajax page, see the talk page there. aLii 12:43, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I removed the phrase "top 10" and "curently (?!) plays in Serie B" like the Ajax page. --Dantemateo 22:28, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Edits to 'Juventus & The Italian Squad' and 'Honours and Records'

Who is happy with the total removal of the paragraph Juventus & The Italian Squad (see edit on 20:24 01-November-2006) and the amputation of paragraph Honours and Records (see edit on 20:26 01-November-2006)? I suggest we re-instate both items unless most people agree with what was done. 70.24.95.4 18:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Aftermath of Calciopoli section

Some of the club's top stars did however remain loyal to the club, including goalkeeper Gianluigi Buffon, former Czech star Pavel Nedvěd, long-serving striker Alessandro Del Piero, Mauro Camoranesi and French striker David Trézéguet though Trézéguet had said that he was forced to stay at Juventus.

A source for the quote on Trézéguet's motivations for staying at Juve would be nice. Especially considering this article.

--Malibu Stacey 19:38, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Serie B

It should be mentioned in the list of Juventus Honours that they have won the Serie B as well

Injury Report

I wonder if an updated injury report should be a subsection of the 'current year' section. Trezeguet and others are out, but I don't know what's wrong with them and when they are expected back. 70.24.95.4 00:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Reliable Serie "B" player stats

Where can they be found?... I find its harder keeping all the Juve players, appearence & goals stats in correct shape without this. - Deathrocker 06:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

GA review?

What would be needed to be done to the article to have it elevated to "good article" status?.. obviously the history looks a bit better now. - The Daddy 13:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

If you want to know the exact criterions, see WP:GA?. IMHO, it needs broader historical coverage, more recent photos, and the whole history section needing to be sourced. Feel free also to follow the WikiProject Football article suggestions. I recently obtained U.S. Città di Palermo to be promoted as Good Article, so you can also have a look at that article to have an idea. --Angelo 13:30, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

You might also want to format the references properly, although some GA reviewers may not be such a stickler for those, but for long term purposes it will be necessary. Chensiyuan 14:26, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

It will also need a wholesale re-write of some of the English used. Whole sections sound like an Italian article translated by machine into English, rather than written in English. e.g. "This nickname, globally famous, was derived by the standard of living of then founders, all young torinesi students, in the latest years of the nineteenth century", "Amongst the foreign players-world champions at the moment of their militancy in the Old Lady, the most famous is, probably, the French Zinédine Zidane (France 1998)." etc. - fchd 06:46, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I've sorted a lot of the wording out now... and the rest of the article, the main thing that needs doing is to fix the references; I think there are enough of them (56) but they just need the correct formating. - The Daddy 00:51, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Nice work, maybe it's the right time to consider Wikipedia:Peer review in order to see what others think about this article and improve it up to GA and (possibly) FA status. --Angelo 01:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll look into the peer review. - The Daddy 05:46, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Future Transfers 2007/2008

Juventus have a large transfer kitty for this summer (around 70 million) so obviously there are going to be a lot of transfers over the summer. We should make sure there are reliable sources for them, and not just rumours to stop any false information. - The Daddy 09:50, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

That's not just a Juve issue. Last nite I reverted Iaquinta's signing from here (merely a rumour), and right now I had to revert Muntari's bid from Udinese to Portsmouth (unconfirmed). And keep in mind the Italian summer transfer market officially starts from July 1, so it is better to include these players into a "summer transfers" paragraph rather than the current squad list in order to avoid confusion. --Angelo 14:07, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Nickname

Can some clarify what this actually means? This nickname, globally famous, was derived by the standard of living of then founders, all young torinesi students Why would that give rise to the nickname "The Old Lady"? I can't see any connection at all....

I'd always heard that the "old" part was based on the fact that Juventus is one of the oldest and most venerable clubs in Italy and the "lady" part from the fact that the word Juventus is a feminine noun in Italian......... ChrisTheDude 13:20, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

The "Old Lady" is a nickname they've had since the 1930s.

Before that they just had the Lady part (Signora in Italian, Madama in Piemontese), from what I gather it was used in the same way as a man may refer to his car affectionatly as "she". And obviously it ties in with Juventus' other nickname as the girlfriend of Italy, because since the 1920s lots of workers from the South of the country came North to work in the Agnelli families Fiat factory and supported the club, so refering to the club like it was a woman wasn't anything new.

The "Old" part refers to the age of many major star players at the time in the 1930s Luis Monti, Umberto Caligaris, Raimundo Orsi, Virginio Rosetta, etc were all around 33/32 years old while with the club at the same time. Its a pun in a sense, because the word Juventus means "youth". Hope that clarifies somewhat. - The Daddy 14:58, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Slavia Prague

In history section slavia prague is called a russian club. this needs to be changed to czech.

Fixed. I changed it to Czechoslovakian, since the article refers to a match in the 1930s, when Czech Republic was part of that country. --Angelo 19:51, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Juventus-FC.png

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BetacommandBot 01:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Calciopoli and Inter

I underwent an edit to the Calciopoli section as it read more like a Juventus fan's tirade against Inter Milan than a presentation of the truth. Juventus' vitriol was aimed at more than just at Inter- it was aimed, as well, at the clubs whose penalties were reduced, since their penalties were significantly not as severe as Juventus' continued to be. I'll agree that much of it probably should be written about Inter- because they received most of the "anti-verdict" press in the aftermath- but the section shouldn't *exclusively* be about Inter.-RomeW

World cup final record:

If I am not mistaken, 2006 world cup final was a record when 8 of the 22 players on the pitch were from one club, Juventus. (Cannavaro, Buffon, Del Piero, Camoranesi and Zambrotta for Italy and Thuram, Patrick Viera, and Trezeguet for France)

Sumeetnagar 04:04, 14 August 2007 (UTC)Sumeet

Juventus squard numbers 2007 - 2008

From : http://www.juventus.com/it/news/detail.aspx?lml_language_id=0&trs_id=1606000&ID=12037

1 Buffon 2 Birindelli 3 Chiellini 4 Almiron 5 Zebina 6 Zanetti 7 Salihamidzic 8 Camoranesi 9 Iaquinta 10 Del Piero 11 Nedved 12 Belardi 14 Andrade 17 Trezeguet 18 Boumsong 19 Criscito 20 Palladino 21 Grygera 23 Nocerino 24 Olivera 25 Zalayeta 26 Blasi 28 Molinaro 30 Tiago 31 Novembre 32 Marchionni 33 Legrottaglie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by YPChakree (talk • contribs) 09:38, August 21, 2007 (UTC).

err, retired numbers section are completely wrong, it has never been officially retired, and now iti is used by salihamidzic.59.167.23.216 13:56, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

GA Review Comments

Ok here it goes

• "After winning Serie B, it was promoted back to Serie A for the 2007–08 season". remove it and replace with Juventus Done
• Incorporate the text in brackets into the article Done
• "At present, Juventus play their home games at the Stadio Olimpico di Torino while their full-time stadium, Stadio delle Alpi is having structural changes and won't be ready until 2008".[2][11] rephrase the last bit of the sentence Done
• Notes and References heading doesn't meet WP:HEAD. Done
• They first won the league championship in 1905 ... they should be Juventus Done
• "Fiat owner Edoardo Agnelli gained control of the club in 1923, building a new stadium for the club". for the club is not needed Done
• Use WP:DASH for scores & year ranges. Done
• "though for the rest of the 1930s and the majority of the 1940s they were unable to recapture form" rephrase the bit at the end Done
• "This kind of form would be a sign of things to come in the future." POV unless it can be cited Done
• "That season saw Juventus awarded with the Golden Star for Sport Excellence to wear on their shirt after becoming the first Italian side to win ten league titles, also Sivori became the first ever player at the club to win the European Footballer of the Year." break this done into two sentences Done
• "The following season they beat out Fiorentina" remove out Done
• "Boniperti retired in 1961, he retired as the all-time top scorer at the club, with 182 goals in all competitions; a club record which would last for 45 years." needs a citation Done
• "The latter of which was won under Giovanni Trapattoni, the man who would help the club's domination continue on in the early part of the 1980s". cite this or remove Done
• "Juventus is the only club to have players from their club winning the award in four consecutive years". are not is Done
• "The following year, Lippi was appointed as Italy's head coach, bringing an end to one of the most fruitful managerial spell in Juventus' history". needs a citation Done
• "Since 2004, Fabio Capello had taken over the club, and lead them to two more Serie A titles" rephrase the sentence Done
• "But during May 2006, they ... replace they with Juventus Done
• "s well as been stripped of the two titles won under Capello" replace been with being Done
• "Many high key players were sold (including Fabio Cannavaro) however, other big name players remained to help the club return. remove high and specify where they are returning too Done
• "bianconeri" this should be in italics Done
• Put the lists of presidents and managers into a table Done
• Club statistics and records needs a few more citations Done
• "Juventus have played in black and white striped shirts, with white shorts (sometimes black shorts) since 1903. Originally, they played in pink shirts with a black tie, the father of one of the players made the earliest shirts, but continual washing faded the colour so much that in 1903 the club sought to replace them". POV unless cited Done
• Colours, badge and nicknames needs more citations Done
• "Juventus ultras have good relationships with Piacenza, Ado Den Haag and Legia Warsaw fans and have several rivalries, two of which are highly significant. The first is with local club Torino, they compete in the Derby della Mole (Derby of Torino) together; this rivalry dates back to 1906 when Torino was founded by former Juve members. The other most significant rivalry is with Internazionale; matches between Juventus and Inter are referred to as the Derby d'Italia (Derby of Italy). Up until the 2006 Serie A match-fixing scandal, which saw Juventus relegated, the two were the only Italian clubs to have never played below Serie A. Notably the two sides are the most supported in Italy, the rivalry has intensified since the later part of the 1990s. Done

Notable Old Lady supporters are the spinto tenor Luciano Pavarotti, the French racing driver Jean Alesi, the prelate of the Roman Catholic Church Tarcisio Bertone, the singer and songwriter Eros Ramazzotti and the Mayor of Rome Walter Veltroni." needs citations Done

I'm going to put the article on hold, once these changes are made I can then hopefully pass the article. NapHit 15:04, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. I've started to deal with some and have put a done tag next to ones which are completed. If you could help out with the ones which you thought needed a different phrasing, then please do. - The Daddy 00:03, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

OK everything on the list has been seen to now. - The Daddy 18:05, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Well done the article is now GA standard NapHit 12:25, 24 August 2007 (UTC)