Talk:Kalola Pupuka

Kalola Pupuka[edit]

"Relibale sources only refer to the person under the shorter name." This is a dubious claim; some certainly do use "Kalola Pupuka" including the only sources in this poorly cited article, but they do not only refer to her Kalola Pupuka. Sources using "Kalola Pupuka" are in the minority. According to a google book search; "Kalola Pupuka" turns up 27 results but only list ten books (many of them are different versions of Thrum's Hawaiian Almanac) where you can see the text and three other books that are dud results that don't use "Kalola Pupuka". Kamakau called her "Ka-lola Pupuka-o-Hono-ka-wai-lani" and refers to as "Ka-lola" throughout the text. Kuykendall and Fornander called her Kalola throughout their books. More sources simply calls her Kalola because she was the most well-known Kalola. I suggest moving it to simply Kalola, the form used in more sources than ones which use Kalola Pupuka, with a disambiguation at the top for Kalola-a-Kumukoa.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:41, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Kamakau's index[edit]

Ka-lola, chiefess related to Kau-i-ke-aouli, owned a still, 339

Ka-lola, daughter of Ka-hekili, 82

Ka-lola, daughter of Ke-kau-like, 69, 70, 86, 88, 197, 220, 263; wife of Ka-lani-ʻopuʻu, 79, 310; stops Ka-lani-ʻopuʻu from boarding Cook's ship, 102; sends canoe from Maui to Ka-lani-ʻopuʻu, 106; full name, mother of Kiwalaʻo, 118; returns to Maui with Ka-lani-ku-pule, 142; new husband, Ka-ʻopu-iki, prohibits trade with Eleanora, declares Mauʻumae tabu, 145; flees Maui, dies on Molokai, 148, 149; mother of Ke-kui-apo-iwa, 206; said to be buried same place as Kamehameha, Hono-ka-wai-iani's daughter, 215; dies on Molokai, 260; chief wife of Ka-lani-ʻopuʻu, 310; Kuakini named Ka-lua-i-konahale after her grave at Molokai, 388; called Ka-lani-ka-uli-hiwa-Kama Ka-lola, 430

Ka-lola, wife of Kamehameha, daughter of Kumu-koʻa, 109; mother of Manono, 208; at Liholiho's court, 251; Kamehameha's wife during Kauhola period, 311

Ka-lola-a-Kumukoʻa, SEE Ka-lola, wife of Kamehameha

Thomas G. Thrum was referring to the Kalola on page 82 when he called her daughter of Kahekili and Honokawailani; there is no indication in the source that Thrum was even talking about her aunt since the source was only a brief mention of a Kalola buried there. Also since the older Kalola was buried at Kalamaula on Molokai (her nephew Kuakini was named Kaluaikonahale for the burial place) where she died. Thrum is talking about her niece. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 11:45, 20 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. EdJohnston (talk) 21:55, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Kalola Pupuka → Kalola – Inline with the majority of reliable source on the subject. "Kalola Pupuka" is a name that is simply rarely ever used in the sources and only found in about ten searchable sources on google books compared to the thousands of other sources that called the subject Kalola or Kalola Pupuka-o-Honokawailani or Kalola Pupukaohonokawailani; a simple google search will return many Hawaiian books speaking about this historical figure calling her just Kalola [1]; few except the ten above calls her "Kalola Pupuka" stand alone. Even though there are other Hawaiian chiefess named Kalola, she is by far the most notable one. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 21:02, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose As the single use of the name can be said of several subjects with the name. It is not encyclopedic to purposely create confusion by shortening the name of a subject where there are others with that name. There are at least four subjects with the name. The one this page began with, the Kalola that married Kamehameha I and Kalokawahilani. So...that is not a good suggestion.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:46, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Odd that you make this move request when just a few days ago you demonstrate there are several people from the period with the name.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:48, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not odd. I've stated above my reasonings. She is the most famous and most cited of the Kalola's in reliable sources thus I believe she fits the criteria for primary topic and other Kalola's can be linked to with disambiguation links. Also because "Kalola Pupuka" is used in a minority of the sources speaking about this woman thus it is not an appropriate title. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:03, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have my doubts to that but even then we don't cut of names of people when there are other that existed with encyclopedic mention. It only adds further confusion to the history. We need to be specific here.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:26, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Determining a primary topic on Wikipedia is not cut and dry so it is perfectly fine you have doubts. I don't have any doubts that it is the primary topic. The same situation exist for Kalama despite how common the name is for at most two other significant figures, both males, and not to mention other articles of this kind. A similar situation like Elizabeth of Hungary will not exclude other people with similar name that existed with encyclopedic mention nor will it be confusing. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:38, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.