Talk:Kappa Ursae Majoris

Ursa Minor?

Under "alternative designations", κ UMi and 12 Ursae Minoris are listed. Surely that's a mistake? 41.223.132.251 (talk) 15:03, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

So close, and yet so far away! Lithopsian (talk) 16:23, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Comment

The sheer quantity of sources on this page makes me very happy. Manhattia (talk) 14:34, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Talitha Australis

Hi Lithopsian - I completely understand why you didn't want Talitha Australis there, but the reason I added it is that there is a redirect from that term to this article, and it needs some kind of mention and explanation. The only mention of Talitha in the article is in a template which redirects to Iota Ursae Majoris. Knowing nothing about astronomy, I wasn't going to attempt looking for sources and working out what's what, but was hoping that somebody knowledgeable would. Either this, or delete the redirect and the mention on the Australis DAB page (where mention is slightly questionable anyway, as it appears that quite a lot of alternative star names seem to have this suffix, for obvious reasons!). Best wishes. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 10:31, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Stars have a lot of synonyms, some more notable than others. There are also redirects from: 12 Ursae Majoris, only mentioned in the starbox but probably also deserves a nod in the nomenclature section; Al Kaprah, arguably obvious given Alkaphrah; and HR 3594 and HD 77327 which I just created and should probably be addressed in the nomenclature section just for completeness. Anyway, Talitha Australis, too obscure from the lead, there is a different IAU-approved proper name, not that anyone uses it. Talitha Australis could be mentioned in the nomenclature section if we can find a source, then we can redirect to the section. I'll change the redirect anyway. Lithopsian (talk) 11:12, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Looking for sources, the usual suspects (eg. Simbad, Burnham, Kostjuk and Allen) say nothing about this name, so I suspect it is relatively modern. I can find a number of mentions at Google books, but nothing older than 2010, which is suspicious. Both Talitha Borealis and Talitha Australis are mentioned prominently in their respective WP articles at creation in 2005, with no sources, suggesting Wikipedia is the source of these names. Burnham gives the name Talitha for ι Ursae Majoris, which seems well-supported, and also describes it as sometimes applying to both ι and κ. Talitha Australis, and also Talitha Borealis, appear to be modern constructs but maybe a deeper search will find something older. Lithopsian (talk) 11:12, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

I see, thanks, Lithopsian. If something about it could be written somewhere in the article, or else just in a footnote, then it would at least explain why that name is used as a redirect...? If you don't think that this name is valid at all, then let me know and I will remove it from the DAB page and suggest deleting the redirect. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 01:12, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

I really don't know what to do about this. It is purely speculation on my part that the name originates in Wikipedia, and even if it does it has now been published in more than one book (eg. [1]). At what point does something become notable even if it did originate in Wikipedia? My theory rests on Wikipedia being the earliest reference I can find, 2005, for the name being used. Then from about 2010 onwards it starts to appear in books. There is nothing in the scientific literature that I can find. An interesting story perhaps, but without references to back me up, probably not something that can go in the article. Lithopsian (talk) 13:10, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Hmmm, tricky. I'll leave it to you. Probably just leave as is then? I'm tempted to remove all of the star links from the Australis DAB page though, because none of them are true matches anyway. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 01:03, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Not seen australis (disambiguation) before. There shouldn't be any confusion with the star names, probably not with aurora australis either, nobody refers to any of them as just "australis". I know they're in a see also section, but I agree they don't need to be there at all. Might be a stretch to get the redirect deleted, not "harmful" as such, but certainly a little confusing if the article says nothing about it. I'm still hopeful of finding some sources to shed light on this name. Lithopsian (talk) 09:28, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

I did a bit of a cleanup to the dab page the other day and shuffled those into the See also section. Now that I've examined the history, it seems they were added by a now-blocked editor, so I don't have any compunction about removing them altogether. I'll leave the rest with you! Thanks for the discussion and extra info. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 10:32, 13 May 2022 (UTC)