Talk:Kenneth Raisbeck

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 12:02, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

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• ... that the character of Francis Starwick in Thomas Wolfe's semi-autobiographical novel Of Time and the River (1935) is based on the playwright Kenneth Raisbeck?
  Sources:

  • Teicher, Morton I. (1993). Looking Homeward: A Thomas Wolfe Photo Album. University of Missouri Press. p. 8. ISBN 9780826208934.
  • Rintoul, M.C. (2014). "Raisbeck, Kenneth". Dictionary of Real People and Places in Fiction. Taylor & Francis. p. 763. ISBN 9781136119323.
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Caspar Richter

Created by 4meter4 (talk). Self-nominated at 21:34, 28 January 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Kenneth Raisbeck; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• This is not a full review, but I have some reservations about the hook. If a reader is unfamiliar with Wolfe or his novel, the hook doesn't really stand out, making the hook somewhat reliant on specialist knowledge. Can a more broadly understandable hook be proposed here? Although morbid, I wonder if a hook regarding the dispute regarding the circumstances of his death could work. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:50, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
• @4meter4: I was asking for some feedback off-Wiki regarding this nom and Pretzelles offered this alternative wording:

ALT1 ... that despite falling out with its author, Kenneth Raisbeck was the basis for a character in the novel Of Time and the River?

Personally I think it's better than the original hook since it's less reliant on specialist knowledge. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:09, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5 I am fine with the alternative hook provided Wolfe is named in the text. I don't necessarily think specialist knowledge is needed. Thomas Wolfe is a major American novelist. He was required reading when I went to high school (I read Look Homeward Angel in 11th grade English) and college (I read 'Of Time and the River in freshman English lit). It would be like not knowing who Ernest Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Edgar Alan Poe, or Mark Twain are when it comes to American Lit. It would be rare to take a course in classic American lit in high school or college without reading Thomas Wolfe. He's a central writer, and is not exactly an esoteric topic. There is a whole slew of CliffsNotes and other study materials made for high school and college students for the novel Of Time and the River because it is a regularly assigned novel in English lit courses. The typical American will have studied Wolfe in school. I suppose global audience may not be as familiar with Wolfe, but certainly he is read in the UK. The Brits made a 2016 biopic film Genius which is about the writing of Of Time and the River so its not like this novel hasn't been in the broader public consciousness recently. I would oppose not including Wolfe's name in the hook because Wolfe's name is the immediate draw that make's it hooky in the same way other famous novelists like Twain, Poe, Dickens, Austen, etc. would be a draw. And yes Wolfe is in that class of major well known novelist (which is why we have things like biopic films being made on him). 4meter4 (talk) 00:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

I suppose global audience may not be as familiar with Wolfe. This is really the issue here. Per WP:DYKINT: don't assume everyone worldwide is familiar with your subject. What we could do, as a compromise, could be ALT1a ... that despite falling out with its author, Kenneth Raisbeck was the basis for a character in the Thomas Wolfe novel Of Time and the River?, but it should still be noted that hooks should not be US centric (maybe it's me not being an American, but I have never heard of Wolfe before though I know who Twain, Poe, and Dickens are, and I imagine they're far more well-known internationally). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:01, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. One can't always know if something is US centric if you are yourself American and lack an outsiders perspective. I think the alt hook with the addition of Wolfe's name would be fine.4meter4 (talk) 01:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

If you have no issues with ALT1a then I suppose this nomination is ready for a full review? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:40, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

• Full review needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:45, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
• Reviewing now. Cielquiparle (talk) 10:50, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
• New enough (nominated on the same day as creation), long enough (4715 characters). QPQ is done and nomination is exempt from the double QPQ rule since it was submitted back in January). Well-sourced, citing several books by academic and major national publishers, and neutral in tone. Earwig says copyvio unlikely (highest was a 7.4% match); AGF on offline book sources. Appreciate that some workshopping has already taken place on the hook, so I am adding a slight variation to the mix, which I think falls within the threshold of not triggering another full re-review.

• ALT1b: ... that despite falling out with novelist Thomas Wolfe, Kenneth Raisbeck was the basis for a character in Of Time and the River?

Up to the promoter which variation you pick (or we could keep refining this at WP:DYKNA if needed. Cielquiparle (talk) 11:06, 17 March 2024 (UTC)