Talk:Khaled (musician)

Initial text

I think "Abdelkader ya Boualem" is referring to Sidi Abdelkader el-Djilâni/Djilali, but I wouldn't swear to it. Mustafaa 09:22, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

There's several million people called Khaled - that won't do as a page title. I don't see what's wrong with "Cheb Khaled" as a title myself though. - Mustafaa 14:36, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Cheb Khaled, or Khaled

He did drop the Cheb from his name a while ago. Yes, there are a lot of people that have Khaled as a first name, but they never go with just Khaled. Waseem7

Oh. That's kind of funny - I guess he's not young enough to a "Cheb" any more! In that case, I guess you're right. My apologies. - Mustafaa 23:39, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Old Albums

We need a list of old albums and their dates. Can anyone add them? Waseem7 04:29, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Untitled

i love this guy.. long live — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.255.247.84 (talk) 17:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Fundamentalists

In the article it says:

"In response, fundamentalists sent death threats to some raï artists and murdered at least one, Cheb Hasni. The danger forced Khaled to move to Paris in 1986 (see 1986 in music). In 1992 (see 1992 in music), after dropping "Cheb" from his name, he released his self titled album Khaled, which established his reputation as a superstar in France and among Algerian emigrants around the world."

Just wanted to point out that Hasni was killed in 1994 and from the above text it makes it seem like he was killed in 1986 (and which forced Khaled to move). I think it could be worded better!

Addressed comment. Waseem7 01:37, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

While perhaps all that was written before had too much unsourced conjecture (and thus was rightfully removed from the article), beginning with "In 1992" seemed far too limited. So, I've added a very short introduction, and a "source needed" tag. I don't have time to dig it up at the moment, but it should be found and added. Perhaps finding this will also allow for some further elaborations on offenses and threats without crossing into the territoty of original material. MXVN (talk) 14:37, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

I see that there is no explanation now of why he moved to France; perhaps one should be added if the source can be found. MXVN (talk) 04:13, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

"Alech Taadi" and The Fifth Element

The article lists this song as being on the soundtrack for the US film The Fifth Element. This actually is not the case- though the song was featured in the film, for some reason it was not released on the soundtrack. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.139.214.114 (talk) 14:24, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

It is the case, since a soundtrack is recorded music accompanying and synchronized to the images of a motion picture, television program or video game. It is not the same thing as a soundtrack "album", you understand? So even if its not on the album this song is on the soundtrack of the EUROPEAN film "The Fifth Element" (directed by a french, photography by a french, screenplay, production and costumes design also, fully produced by a french inc, filmed in england, the only united-staters in the credits are the actors... making it a european movie or even a french movie, sorry if its unrelated but im tired of hearing this from narrow minded people convinced they're always right.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.54.196.178 (talk) 16:06, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Salam Maghreb

Where is the album Salam Maghreb? How should that album fit in his discography? It's not everywhere mentioned on the internet, but it exists (and it's a rather good cd as well). 84.82.213.147 23:48, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Khaled has several old recordings that were released as albums by record labels that are not his official one. These recordings are not included in the discography Waseem7 22:50, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

If it includes original material not available on another album, and a solid source can be found which shows a release year, label, track listing, etcetera, I'll add it to the discography. Until then, I agree with Waseem7, as there could be a great many "unofficial" albums, and unfortunately we'd need a source as to avoid listing something that is a bootleg, a sampler, not a true album, or doesn't actually exist. *EDIT: Amazon has a listing for Salam Maghreb, but it does not offer enough information. I looked on Discogs.com, and there was no sign of it there. However, Moule El Kouchi was released by his primary label at the time (Celluloid) in France, and on cassette, LP and CD formats. The track listing is original (not a compilation) so I've added it to the discography. MXVN (talk) 13:56, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Language(s)

Khaled is from Algeria. Since I barely know Arabic myself, I'd like to ask you guys: is the Arabic he sings in a sort of Algerian dialect or is it a sort of standard Arabic understood in many Arabic-speaking countries without problems? For example, Abdel Halim Hafez sang in distinct Egyptian dialect with some parts fairly different from standard Arabic, presumedly not understood 100% by the whole Arab world. -andy 92.229.113.39 (talk) 06:36, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding Abdel Halim Hafez and the Egyptian dialect he sang, it is true that the Egyptian dialect is significantly different that other Arabic dialects, Egyptian is well understood by all Arabs because of Egyptian movies and media being very popular in the Arab world.

Khaled sings in an Algerian dialect that is not as commonly known in the Arab world, although if you listen hard you can recognize what the words are although the accent and stress on words might be different. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.43.116.174 (talk) 18:35, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Moroccan citizenship

I'm curious to know why the sentence recently added here by Safarium about Khaled's Moroccan citizenship was removed by MoorNextDoor with the edit summary "Completely irrelevant"? Is it suggested that person granted Moroccan citizenship on 20 August 2013 was some other Khaled Hadj Ibrahim, also coincidentally born on 29 February 1960 at Oran? Isn't that a little far-fetched? It's on page 2321, by the way. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 15:14, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Truth be told, he was offered not granted Moroccan citizenship, the difference between the two is definitely worth mentioning, especially since he never asked for it and only became aware of after his wife attended her father's funeral in Tlemcen; a gift among others, that's hardly noteworthy, least of all in such a prominent position. In any case, I decided to leave it where it is for now, until the creation of a personal life section where it would be more appropriate.MoorNextDoor (talk) 03:50, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to read WP:TRUTH.

Regards,
--Omar-toons (talk) 07:14, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

I hope you're read it too.

Regards

MoorNextDoor (talk) 13:57, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

MoorNextDoor asserts that "all the sources" say Khaled was offered, but not granted, Moroccan citizenship. Where are those sources, MoorNextDoor? Why don't you cite them in the article as you were invited to do? You say they are on the talk page. I don't see them. The only source I can see that you've added here is this by Rachid Laïreche, which clearly states that he is a "chanteur algérien et depuis peu marocain" and that "Un cadeau ne se refuse pas, c’est un honneur que le roi lui fait". Yes, he was offered it. Yes, he accepted it. Yes, he received Moroccan citizenship. Any questions? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 14:48, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Is that source not enough for you ? Would you prefer hearing him saying it again, or would reading it again in an Algerian newspaper be enough ?

A simple search of "cheb khaled un cadeau ne se refuse pas" would yield thousands of articles of him explaining why he could not refuse the offered gift of citizenship. MoorNextDoor (talk) 15:04, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks to give us some WP:RS, interviews are WP:PRIMARY and nobody will contest the fact that an official paper is more WP:RS than People magazines. --Omar-toons (talk) 18:57, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

What official paper are you on about ? Is there anything more official than the concerned person who, in the course of a an interview, is setting the record straight ? MoorNextDoor (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:44, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Interviews are WP:PRIMARY. The official paper that I'm talking about is the Moroccan Bulletin officiel page 2321 cited on the article.

Thanks to refrain from pushing your WP:POV despite the fact that it is contested by other users on this talk page, otherwise it can be considered WP:DISRUPT.

Regards,
--Omar-toons (talk) 19:56, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Edit:

Btw, I made a rapid Google search with keywords khaled+moroccan+citizenship and among the 20 first search results (I didn't go further) I don't see anything saying that he was "offered" the citizenship [1][2][3], so I don't see where "all the sources say that he it was offered to him".

I would like to ask you to avoid persisting on adding WP:POV statements, even if the WP:VERIFY facts dissatisfact you [4][5].

--Omar-toons (talk) 20:04, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

You still haven't answered my question, what official paper are you on about ?

I don't know about other planets, but on this one, gifts are not granted, they are offered. I already provided the links of various interviews as well as a video of him explaining why he could not refuse the gift of the citizenship. So, the onus is on you to prove otherwise.

For a better search and since most of his followers speak French, you should try "cheb khaled un cadeau ne se refuse pas" to understand why he had to set the record straight. MoorNextDoor (talk) 20:15, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

that paper.

also, I would like to ask you to avoid personal attacks.

--Omar-toons (talk) 20:19, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Nothing personal in what I said, having said that, how about you point me to the concerned paragraph and ideally, to the part where it shows the request made by him.

I'd like to remind you about the case of Gérard Depardieu who made an official request before being granted the Russian citizenship. MoorNextDoor (talk) 20:26, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

We don't care about Khaled's request or Depardieu, sources say he was naturalized, that's all. Which part of this you have trouble understanding? --Omar-toons (talk) 21:17, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

OK people, let's keep this friendly. The two additional sources cited by MoorNextDoor do indeed both confirm that Khaled was given Moroccan citizenship. I was quite perplexed as to why he might suggest that they didn't. Perhaps I have found the explanation. Moor, I don't want to offend, but is it possible that English is not your first language? Because, unlike French offrir and Italian offrire, gifts are not "offered" in English, but given, bestowed, presented; honours such as a medal or a citizenship are often granted or awarded. "Offer" is more like "Hey, Khaled, would you like to be a Moroccan citizen?" According to the Laïreche interview, he was offered the citizenship; he accepted the offer (because he felt he could not refuse); he was given the citizenship. What record did he have to set straight? Would it help if a sentence was added saying that he did not renounce his Algerian nationality? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:21, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

I never suggested that he didn't, I was merely trying to keep it simple. A a matter of fact, you'll find that both "to offer" and "to grant" are used interchangeably in regards to citizenships, sometimes even within the same article; but since there seem to be a problem, I'll settle for "awarded", and since half truths are worse than lies, I'll also add that he never asked for it and only accepted it because he felt he could not refuse. MoorNextDoor (talk) 22:49, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

This wording makes it sound as though there should be some offense or other problem with the offer, or that some misconception needed clearing up but without first stating a misconception (otherwise, why state it so strongly?). So I have reworded it slightly to stick to facts and biographical neutrality. MXVN (talk) 04:16, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Please, we don't care about your opinion nor your truth, give us some secondary WP:RS or move on. --Omar-toons (talk) 01:49, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Btw, "un cadeau qui ne se refuse pas" is a French expression, that doesn't mean that it is a "gift". --Omar-toons (talk) 01:52, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

If by "we" you mean "you", then I can pretty much guess that you don't care about the truth either, you'd rather have the last say at whatever cost. People have been arguing for ages about what constitutes a primary and a secondary source, what makes you thing you know better than everyone else ? How about the decree that you posted, is that considered primary or secondary source ?

Thanks for telling me what it doesn't mean, I prefer to know what it means. MoorNextDoor (talk) 02:10, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

By we I mean contributors on Wikipedia, and we don't care about the "truth" (WP:TRUTH), we only care about verifiability (WP:V), reliable sources (WP:RS) and avoiding original research (WP:NOR). These are Wikipedia policies, not choices people made.

--Omar-toons (talk) 02:40, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

How about this article ? Will this one help ?

What about the royal decree ? Is that primary or secondary source ? MoorNextDoor (talk) 02:48, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Dutch chart positions

Something went terribly wrong with the Dutch chart listings here. Khaled only ever had two Dutch top40 hits, cited as the source in the table: The competing Dutchcharts.nl has four listings by Khaled: the same two and two minor ones.

I did not change the table (yet) because maybe somebody can shed a light on where these listings are coming from.

Eti erik (talk) 19:40, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

References

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Discography

We may have to put something of a lock on the discography. The page says he was active from 1984 forward, because that is the earliest known official album (his label was Cellulose at the time) that can be confirmed, titled Hada Raykoum. This album used to be listed in the discography, as well as Cheb Khaled: Moule El Kouchi, released in 1985, and Fuir, Mais Ou? from 1988. Ya Taleb was also released on Celluloid, but we do not know the initial release year. It is listed as a compilation album, but this is also not verified. The first three, with confirmed release years on Cellulose, are the only albums that seem to be confirmed official before Kutche.

Now, for some reason, these albums are all removed, and several references exist for others which *cannot be verified* to be official albums. Nor can their release years be verified. Discogs may not be the only source of info, but most albums are there if they are anywhere, and these do not list enough information to include in the article. The changes (removing known official works and replacing them with perhaps unofficial tapes of unknown release year) are also not sourced. As such, I will remove them unless a good, verifiable source can be presented for each one. Also, as there is a verifiable source for at least the first three Celluloid albums mentioned, I will re-add them unless a good argument can be made as to why they should not be included.

In the end, we need an *agreed-upon standard* that will tell us which albums can be proven to be official enough to present here, and which cannot. MXVN (talk) 00:51, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

"Khaled \(musician\)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Khaled \(musician\) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 24#Khaled \(musician\) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 05:56, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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