Talk:King Hagler

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Name change?[edit]

Would it be acceptable to move this article to Nopkehee on the grounds that it is more concise and reflects his actual given name? -Uyvsdi (talk) 23:44, 3 May 2010 (UTC)Uyvsdi[reply]

Guess he is primarily known as King Hagler, so perhaps that would be the best name change. -Uyvsdi (talk) 05:04, 7 May 2010 (UTC)Uyvsdi[reply]

A couple of inconsistencies[edit]

The first came up on which direction did King Hagler was murdered when visiting the Waxhaws. Currently the article says he was going to Waxhaw, but from the South Carolina Hall of Fame and SC Historic Highway Marker, he was returning from the Waxhaw. I could not find other sources that gave me the detail of which direction, with one source from North Carolina saying he was actually hunting instead; I think the South Carolina sources are correct, but I will let others judge it.

The second was when he became Chief or King of the Waxhaw. Currently the article identifies 1754 as his start; again, South Carolina (see links in first paragraph) identify it as 1950 (which would fit with King Yanabe Yalangway article), while the Catawba Cultural Centers Archives listed it at 1748 and North Carolina listing 1749. It would not be surprising for a transitional gap to exist and the South Carolina dates were an attempt to tidy those gaps, or maybe King Yanabe Yalangway was killed earlier than both SC and Wiki have listed. Thank you all for your considerations. --WashuOtaku (talk) 21:25, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to weigh in on sources now, but I plan to do more of my own research on the facts in question. Blumer may not be thoroughly accurate--no historian ever is--but he was the official Catawba Tribal historian for eight years, so I wouldn't discount him entirely. In contrast, historical marker signs are well known to be inaccurate, and I would question their use as reliable sources. The SC Hall of Fame website provides no reference for its information, which in itself makes me question it. Why would you back these two dubious sources over a reputable historian? Another question: you refer to Hagler as chief or king of the Waxhaw people, but most sources agree that the Waxhaw ceased to exist as an independent tribe by about 1720, long before the dates you mention. I agree that the dates of his official chieftainship are confusing and inconsistent. One reason, I believe, is the disparity between tribal recognition of leadership, and Carolina colonial recognition, which probably occurred later, but this is just speculation. Cmacauley (talk) 23:57, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would agree that using a historical marker isn't that reliable, but considering South Carolina does have historians too and have made all this effort around King Hagler, I would consider the South Carolina work they did to be a reasonable source too. That said, they could be incorrect too in regards to the encounter. Agreed more information needs to be gathered here (I wish the Catawba Cultural Center wasn't closed to the public currently, I could have visited them and asked the question). No, I didn't refer Hagler as chief/king of the Waxhaw, but that he was visiting the Waxhaw; the town of Waxhaw was not incorporated till much later while that area may still had some Waxhaw despite the tribe's cessation (I'm just going by the sources I found after all, maybe the NC source was more correct here that it was a hunting party). --WashuOtaku (talk) 02:42, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A contemporary source living in Waxhaws, the Rev. William Richardson, wrote that "the enemy killed King Hagler almost in the midst of our settlement." I would consider this fairly strong evidence, although the primary source (the South Carolina Council Journals) is not available online. Cmacauley (talk) 17:14, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if the location is closer to modern day Van Wyck, South Carolina (and where the historic marker is located) than Waxhaw, North Carolina. Of course, the boundary agreement in 1935, between North and South Carolina, was further north and it was the 1764 survey, after the murder, that put modern day Waxhaw in North Carolina. In regards to the quote, that does not necessarily imply they were coming or going, only that it happened nearby. Of course the primary sources are not available online, that would be too convenient. :( --WashuOtaku (talk) 17:50, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

William Richardson Davie was governor of North Carolina, not South Carolina, as stated in the article. Ray Lee Wayne (talk) 12:08, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Noting here what I said in the edit summary - everything in Blumer needs to be backed up with additional sourcing, as his work if full of errors. His historical records are particularly riddled with mistakes, marrying relatives to one another, etc. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 19:12, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]