Talk:Knocked Loose

Singles

Hey @Seelentau 👋🏼

Still learning about Singles entries, so a few questions:

1. You removed “Slings and Arrows” and “All My Friends”, but kept “Mistakes Like Fractures” as a single, with “Mistakes Like Fractures (EP)” (done by me) as the album title; where can these two songs be listed? Or do they not get listed?
2. Same as “Upon Loss Singles” — can we include the names of the tracks somewhere?
3. When can we remove the ones I have marked with [citation needed] as I cannot seem to find a reliable source as them being official singles... I am for removing them right now.

Thanks for your time. Noaaah (talk) 01:31, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi Noaaah, sorry if I came off as a bit abrasive. Thanks for the questions, I'm not that much of an experienced editor myself, but I'll try to answer them:

1. It depends on how those two songs were released, I assumed they are no real singles because they have no music video. But maybe I'm wrong, these days it's really unclear what even constitutes a single.
2. Yes, on a dedicated page for that single. This one was actually properly released as a single in the old-fashioned way, and even as a double-A-side single, which is pretty rare.
3. Here, it also depends on how they were released, I guess. That and how Wikipedia defines a "single". Again, these days, it seems that basically any song released prior to its respective album is a single.

So in my eyes, you can add those two songs again, or remove the others. Maybe don't use iTunes as source, though. I'd rather go with how the band describes them, or news publications like blabbermouth. Seelentau (talk) 09:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Genre

@Seelentau - Please discuss here rather than continually damage the value of the page. They are not primarily metalcore. Nothing the band has ever stated publicly indicates that they should be considered metalcore. Their website URL is http://knockedloosehc.com/ (the HC stands for "hardcore" - I'd hope that you already know this, but given your insistence that they're "metalcore", I doubt it). Their about us page on their website states that they are hardcore. There is no reference to metalcore. https://knockedloosehc.com/pages/about-us

I never said they're not hardcore. The intro is supposed to show a band's most relevant genre, which is metalcore, as can be seen in the style section of the page. Also, please sign your edits. Seelentau (talk) 17:16, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Their most relevant genre is hardcore, as shown by their website.Bens dream (talk)

That doesn't matter. Ill Niño calls themselves "Latin metal", yet we list them as a metal band. Slipknot (band) is widely considered nu-metal, yet we list them as heavy metal. If Knocked Loose called themselves boomer metal, we wouldn't list them as that. And an editor doesn't decide which the most relevant genre is, as @Bowling is life already told you.

That said, please don't make changes to the main genre before (or while) discussing it on the talk page. The article should stay in its original form until the edit dispute is resolved. Seelentau (talk) 17:22, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@Bens dream: This shouldn't even be a discussion. And I did not damage the value of the article. I improved it by adding more sources. There are four reliable sources that call them metalcore. You do not get to decide what genres a band is. Genres are not based on user opinion and changing genres to reflect your opinion is disruptive. When I moved the genre sources to the article I added more sources for the genres to. I found more sources for metalcore than hardcore punk. Both metalcore and hardcore punk are their main genres according to sources. Metalcore is listed as the first because it has the most sources and hardcore punk is what they are described as in the lead sentence because all three genres in the infobox fall under hardcore punk as either sub genres or influences. Bowling is life (talk) 20:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Yay, I'm back. @Bowling is life: it was me who changed the intro genre. Because if they are a Metalcore band, based on the number of sources, why wouldn't that genre be the one used in the intro? Seelentau (talk) 17:33, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

@Seelentau: Yes, metalcore is the most sourced genre, that's why it's the first genre listed. However, hardcore punk is listed as the main genre in the lead because every genre in the infobox is either hardcore, or influenced by hardcore. Hardcore punk is a stylistic origin of both metalcore and beatdown hardcore. So that's why the lead genre is hardcore punk. It a broad genre and it is best to include a broad genre that describes a band's sound. Although, metalcore could be the band's lead genre too. Either way would be fine, hardcore punk is just broader. Bowling is life (talk) 19:20, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

although i agree with everything that has been said about knocked loose being hardcore, it still would make more sense putting their genre as metalcore as the music itself has been named as "modern metal" and not punk as much in different sources. they have made songs with metal influences such as their death metal ep and even had a slammable death metal part in blinding faith. If we could put it as even metalcore/hardcore punk I think would be more accurate and do their music justice as said they are sandwiched between both genres and only putting one or the other wont do it justice. They did use the abbreviation hc in their social medias and website but a lot of the time bands call themselves something when to listeners they are more than that. For example, motorhead calling themselves rock n roll when articles see them as speed metal or just heavy metal. Following what the band says with calling them hardcore punk because they used an abbreviation. Figurila (talk) 19:26, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

That's something I didn't even consider. I didn't even know they made a death metal EP. I could see this going either way. I guess it would make more sense for the lead genre to be metalcore since it has more sources. If no one else objects, we could change the lead genre to metalcore and all their album articles too. Bowling is life (talk) 19:59, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I would object - whether or not they released a deathcore EP (where is the source on this BTW?) however many years ago doesn't matter, because the current music they make is not deathcore. Bands that start out as X genre and transfer to Y genre have their current genre listed. Hardcore is FAR more accurate, doubly so as it's stated by the band themselves. Bens dream (talk) 15:14, 12 May 2024 (UTC)