Talk:Lê Duẩn

Birth date

The text states that Duan was born in 1907, while the category says 1908. What's the correct? Regards, GADno (talk) 06:32, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

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Zhou Enlai

Please note: This is a Chinese name; the family name is Zhou. --Greenmaven (talk) 02:12, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Why "Le"?

You don't usually see the subject's name shortened, either in English or Vietnamese.[1] Spelling in the text should correspond to the title, aside from the opening, per MOS:FOREIGN and WP:FULLNAME. So he should be referred to as Lê Duẩn and in the opening, and otherwise "Le Duan". Kauffner (talk) 12:49, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

In Vietnam, Le is the surname, and Duan is the firstname... --TIAYN (talk) 13:55, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

For Vietnamese, the given name is the short form. But two-syllable names are not normally shortened. Kauffner (talk) 22:39, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

If Hu Jintao can be shortened, this one can be shortened. --TIAYN (talk) 07:05, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Hu's name is three syllables long, and he is not Vietnamese. Kauffner (talk) 08:15, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Anyway, the point being is, on Wikipedia its normal to refer to a persons surname when referring to him or her in articles.. This is whats been doing her, Le is his surname ,and not Duan... And I must ask you this, were does it say that two-syllable words should not be shortened??? --TIAYN (talk) 08:28, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Look at Ngo Dinh Diem any other Vietnamese bio, aside from Ho Chi Minh. The given name is the short form. Look at the BBC story I linked to above. The subject is "Le Duan" all the way through. Show me a source that calls him "Le". Kauffner (talk) 08:41, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

This review is transcluded from Talk:Le Duan/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: CüRlyTüRkey^Talk_Contribs 04:58, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   • OK won't use it anymore This article makes remarkably promiscuous use of the semicolon, and I'd say in most (maybe all) cases it's unnecessary—and probably incorrect. I'd avoid using it unless you were positive it was necessary.
   • Done Sometimes "COMECON", sometimes "Comecon". Be consistent.
   • Done Massive overlinking. Please purge.

   Done Actually, there's still a lot of this, and an awful lot of repeatlinking. There's a script that's good at captching duplicate links. Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:37, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

   Lead

   • Done redundant: "in 1930, but was arrested the following year, in 1931"
   • Done was active? "During the First Indochina War, Le Duan active in a communist cadre in the South"

   Early life and career

   • Done should this sentence be starting with "At first"? I think a comma or something is in order. "South Vietnam. At first in Cochin China in 1946,"

   Done drop the comma: "which indirectly decided to split Vietnam, into North and South Vietnam"

   • Done shouldn't "communist party" be capitalized? "(head of the communist party) on behalf of Hồ"
   • Done these commas aren't necessary: "by the Politburo, in August 1956, to guide"
   • Done the comma makes it seem like "his thesis" and The Road to the South are different things: "his thesis, The Road to the South""

   Political infighting and power

   • Done "some"—for example, who? See WP:WEASEL. "There are some who claim"
   • Done Colon instead of semicolon? "split into factions; one pro-Soviet,"
   • Done comma unnecessary: "China, in the aftermath"
   • Done "To strengthened their hold": "To strengthen"?
   • Done "a protege of Le Duan" ==> protégé

   Vietnam War

   • Done "policies towards South Vietnam. It should be noted that" ==> "...Vietnam, though..."
   • Done "From 1956-63": need an {{endash}} for number ranges
   • Done "stating in 1965 that "it is our policy": drop "that"
   • Done "that "it is our policy that we will do our best to support you."": why the italics?
   • Done "in the South had to remain passive, and should restrict their forces": funny mix of tenses
   • Done "Le Duan stated: "Our party is the unique and single leader that organised, controlled, and governed the entire struggle of the Vietnamese people from the first day of the revolution."": why the italics?
   • Done "he congratulated the Provisional Revolutionary Government of the Republic of South Vietnam (PRGRSV), the underground South Vietnamese government established in 1969, of liberating": congratulated for liberating?

   Economy

   • Done "could not have been more optimistic.": was optimistic
   • Done "This optimism would prove unfounded": "would prove" ==> "proved"
   • Done "Vietnam had developed" ==> "Vietnam developed"
   • Done "Vietnam needed nothing short of an economic miracle to recover.": unnecessary editorializing
   • Done "rational economic policy-making was impossible.": this statement is a little hard to swallow. Surely this is hyperbole? "impossible" ==> "very difficult"?
   • Done "Second Five-Year Plan (Vietnam) (1976–1980)": is "(Vietnam)" supposed to be in there? Is there some reason to leave it there?
   • Done "This, as history would prove, did not happen.": drop "as history would prove"
   • Done "US$101; it decreased to US$91 in 1980, and then increased to US$99": drop "US" after first usage. In fact, the first usage isn't even necessary (USD is usually implied by "$")
   • Done "$ 81.6 in 1976 to $ 57.8 in 1980": unlink "$", and drop the space between the "$" and the number

   Relations with the Eastern Bloc

   • Done "would sent qualified": "sent" ==> "send"
   • Done "The communique also stated cooperation between Vietnam within the "frameworks of multilateral cooperation of socialist countries."": I'm having trouble parsing this sentence
   • Done "because of the leadership had failed": drop "of"
   • Done "received $US3 million a day in military aid": drop "US"
   • Done "He^[who?] attended the 27th Congress": who?

   Relations with China

   • Done "the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) (which China boycotted)": parentheses followed by parentheses is awkward to look at. Could this be rearranged or reworded?
   • Done "an official greeting but without": a comma after "greeting" would be clearer
   • Done "that President of the United States Richard Nixon's,": unlink "President of the United States"
   • Done "to the Paris Peace Accords. Following the signing of the Paris Peace Accords,": cut second instance to "Accords" to reduce repetition?
   • Done "From then on, China and Vietnam were drifting further apart;: "were drifting" ==> "drifted"
   • Done "Later on, 22–28 September,": "Later on," ==> "Later, on"

   Relations with Kampuchea and the Sino–Vietnamese War

   • Done Not even a short summary for this section?

   • I'm working on it; would it be possible to postpone the rest of the review until saturday??? (I've been conscripted to the army - I don't have much free-time during work-days). --TIAYN (talk) 07:55, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

   Last years and death

   • Done "He was briefly succeeded by Trường Chinh. Chinh proved to be a temporary replacement: redundant "briefly" and "temporary". I'd drop "briefly".

   Political beliefs

   • Done "manner; "Management by the state aims at ensuring the right of the masses to be the collective masters of the country. How then will the state manage its affairs so as to ensure this right of collective mastery?"" Why the semicolon? Why the italics?
   • Done "Since collective ownership was the only alternative to capitalism,": "since he believed"/"since it was believed"?
   • Done "New Economic Policy (NEP)": is there any need for this acronym? It's not used afterwards.
   • Done "However, those who supported these reforms, saw it as another way": drop the comman after "reforms"
   • Done "from the Marxism–Leninism": not "Marxist–Leninist"?
   • Done link "comprador"
   • Done ""remnants of the feudal landlord classes.": where does this quotation terminate?

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   As far I as I know, this won't affect whether the article passes or fails, but the article makes extensive use of {{sfn}}. This creates short footnotes with links to the references, but the links don't point anywhere unless "|ref=harv" is set in {{cite book}}, etc

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

   • "Done where favor was granted to relatives regardless of merit": Is this universally accepted? I'm no expert on the subject, but it sure sounds like something that could be challenged.
   • "Done ironic since it was the party leadership which had led the country into such a mess": sounds awful POV to me. Reword for neutrality. (removed, why I wrote this I don't know.....)
   • "Done While the Soviet Union paid lip service to Vietnam, when it came to actual material support, they did almost nothing." (removed, this is actually wrong, really wrong)

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   Done Only one image, which is under copyright, but is tagged {{Attribution}}.

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   Done There is only one image. Are there no other possible images that could be used to illustrate the artice?

   Done File:Stamps of Germany (DDR) 1979, MiNr 2463.jpg has been marked for review. It was created in 1979, and is almost certainly under copyright. It will likely be removed from WikiCommons when it does get reviewed. Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:43, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   I'm satisfied the article now meets the GA requirements. CüRlyTüRkey^Talk_Contribs 03:21, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Copyedit

Edited this per request. Feedback encouraged! Comments:

• The article states that Le was not part of Ho or Truong's factions, but then says he acted as secretary for Ho. This could be clarified.

• The style of including a reference for each sentence seems excessive, especially when each sentence in an entire paragraph is to the same page of the same source. For example, see Le Duan#Economy.

• Didn't the cutback in Soviet aid happen when the USSR broke up? If so, that was after Le Duan's death. How is it relevant to the article?

• The economic section seems muddled. The timeline is confused and dates missing.

• Why include a minor Soviet official's explanation of Vietnamese behavior? "According to the first secretary at the Soviet embassy to China, the Vietnamese saw the Chinese reprisals as an attack on them"

• Overall, many sections cover broader issues of the history rather than focusing on Le Duan's activities. I recommend (re)moving the material.

• This sentence is problematic, but I don't have the info to fix it. "While they accused Vietnam of aggression, the real problem all along was the Vietnamese leadership' plan, or ideal, of establishing a Vietnamese-dominated Indochinese Federation" Who said it was the real problem or even that they had such a plan or ideal?

• The article refers to "religious sects". What sects?

• "On paper, these organisations, to which almost all citizens belong, play an active role in government and have the right to introduce bills before the National Assembly". Which organizations?

• What are the "three interests"?

Cheers! Lfstevens (talk) 20:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

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Political infighting and power

This section seems to completely misstate the impact of the Sino-Soviet split within the Vietnamese Communist Party, suggesting that this had no impact until after 1975, which is completely incorrect. It skips over the Revisionist Anti-Party Affair of 1963/4 and then the Hoang Minh Chinh Affair of mid-1967. Mztourist (talk) 09:25, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

CE

Tidied cites with red on, rv as desired. Can't find a cite which corresponds to Cima 1987. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 18:24, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

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