Talk:Law and Justice/Archives/2021/March

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Law and Justice and the Fidesz

Hello everyone! The Law and Justice is the Fidesz's brother party, because they are very conservative parties, and they are hates the illegal migrations, George Soros (Soros György), the Euro (Money and Coin), the globalisation, the communism, the liberal ideology, the liberal democracy, and the European Union. I have 3 sources, that the Law and Justice polish party and the Fidesz hungarian party is they are party brothers, because of these conservative ideologies. Here you go: https://24.hu/kozelet/2017/05/25/4-mondat-a-a-fidesz-lengyel-testverparjanak-elnoketol-amiket-orban-szomoruan-olvas-majd/, https://www.napi.hu/nemzetkozi_gazdasag/veszjelzest_kapott_a_fidesz_testverpartja.660514.html, https://www.napi.hu/nemzetkozi_gazdasag/nagy_manoverbe_kezdett_a_fidesz_testverpartja.713498.html, there you go guys! These 3 Websites are hungarian languages, Testvérpártja means Brother Party and Party Brother in English. It's real, not fake. Every media and the politicans says, that Law and Justice and the Fidesz is they are Brother Party, because they are hates the liberal democracy, the Abortions, the Illegal Migrants, and the other liberal things. The Fidesz is no longer the member of the European People's Party Group, because they leaved, and they going to be Indepedent for little time, and soon they are going to join some Eurosceptic European Party Group in the European Union in sometime. Identity and Democracy Party, and the European Conservatives and Reformists Party Group, they are hates the illegal migrants, George Soros, Anti-European Federalism, and Eurosceptic ideologies, that these 2 Party Group got it. --TomFZ67 (talk) 21:43, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

I totally agree with you. And PiS does not differ significantly in propensity from Fidesz. And Fidesz is more far-right than Jobbik. PiS is a clear Right-wing to Far-right party, as expressed in many books, thesis, and media.--Storm598 (talk) 07:20, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Right-wing to far-right

I know there has been a debate before, but I think it should be corrected even now.

I believe the Law and Justice document infobox should say Right-wing to far-right. The party has too many far-right ideologies to be regarded as simple right-wing. In particular, hate for certain countries and races, such as Anti-German and Anti-Russian, Polish nationalism, and patriarchal elements are points that cannot be described as "Right-wing" in general.

I don't think PiS has much difference in line with far-right populist parties in Western Europe. Numerous sources view PiS as a far-right party.^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4] --Storm598 (talk) 14:52, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Of course, Japan's LDP and India's BJP are also very nationalistic, but they are not racist or anti-liberal at the PiS level. PiS does not differ significantly in quality from Fidesz.--Storm598 (talk) 14:57, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

What we think of parties is irrelevant, we follow reliable sources, I see a consensus among sources and no evidence of dispute. They are clearly described in reliable sources as a far-right party. Bacondrum 02:23, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Looking at the sources presented above I see no debate what-so-ever about their position, they are a far-right party. When commentators say a party is right-wing or left-wing these are broad terms, they are not evidence of dispute. The far-right is right-wing, the far-left is left-wing. If one article said say "the X party is often characterised as far-left, but in reality their policies are center-right" that would be evidence of a dispute. If some sources stated that "the center-right X party..." and others said "the far-right X party..." that would be evidence of a dispute. However, if one article says "the right-wing X party..." and another says "the far-right X party..." then no evidence of dispute is present, the far-right is right-wing. Anyone can find an article about a far-right party that claims they are right, that would be true, the far-right is right-wing, it's akin to a tautology, one is a subset of the other - this is not a disputed descriptor. In my experience editors almost always add "left-wing to far-left" and "right-wing to far-right" to soften the image of an extremist party in a tendentious manner. There are exceptions, when a dispute about positions is clearly present, but those cases are far and few between. This approach is WP:SYNTH and WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH, it is misrepresenting what sources actually say in a tendentious manner. Bacondrum 02:21, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

References

^
- "Poland Bashes Immigrants, but Quietly Takes Christian Ones". New York Times. 26 March 2019. The far-right Law and Justice party came to power in 2015, at the height of Europe's migrant crisis, after running a campaign that inspired choruses of "Poland for Poles."
- "Poland's in crisis again. Here's what you should know about the far right's latest power-grab". Washington Post. 28 November 2017. Since taking control of both the presidency and the parliament in November 2015, Poland's far-right Law and Justice (PiS) party has swiftly changed the rules for public media, the secret service, education, and the military.
- "EU's top court shows how to tackle autocrats". Financial Times. 27 June 2019. Poland's ultra-conservative Law and Justice (PiS) government followed suit last year.
- "Why will Poland not take in any Muslims?". Al Jazeera America. 8 November 2019. Poland's ultra-conservative Law and Justice Party (PiS) won a second term in office last month, a victory that critics fear will accelerate the country's slide towards authoritarianism.
- "Poland's Government Is Systematically Silencing Opposition Voices". Foreign Policy. 31 May 2019. Today, it is the main voice holding the ruling far-right Law and Justice (PiS) party accountable, while facing constant attacks from that government.
- "How Poland uses foreign lobbyists to fight PR wars and influence U.S. policy". Center for Responsive Politics. 19 February 2019. Since the 2015 election of the far-right Law and Justice party in Poland, the country's history with the Holocaust has become a point of contention with Israel.
- "Zack Blumberg: Europe's far right movements come on strong, but what next?". The Michigan Daily. 11 April 2019. In the 2015 Polish parliamentary election, the far-right Law and Justice Party, or PiS, won with an outright majority (meaning they did not need to form a coalition to govern), something that had not been done in Poland since the fall of communism in 1989.
- "Revealed: dozens of European politicians linked to US 'incubator for extremism'". Open Democracy. 27 March 2019. He had then recently left the far right Law and Justice (PiS) party over its failure to push through a constitutional amendment that would have banned abortion in all cases.
- "What to Make of the European Elections". The Atlantic. 30 May 2019. In Poland, the far-right Law and Justice bested a broad alliance of moderate politicians.
^
- Adam Zamoyski, ed. (2009). Poland: A History. Harper Press. p. 398. The ostensibly far-right PiS was supported by the poor, whom it seduced by its nationalistic , populist and socialist slogans.
- Wojciech Sadurski, ed. (2019). Poland's Constitutional Breakdown. Oxford University Press. p. 3.
- Victoria Carty, ed. (2020). The Immigration Crisis in Europe and the U.S.-Mexico Border in the New Era of Heightened Nativism. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 56. On a campaign slogan of "Poland for Poles," the far-right Law and Justice Party, represented by Jaroslaw Kaczynski, came to power in 2015 (Santora 2019).
- Annik LaFarge, ed. (2020). Chasing Chopin: A Musical Journey Across Three Centuries, Four Countries, and a Half-Dozen Revolutions. Simon and Schuster. p. 22. The "very hard story" of Poland continues in the twenty-first century under the far-right Law and Justice Party, with its nationalist ...
^ "The Rise of Poland's Far Right". Foreign Affairs. 18 December 2017.
^ Traub, James (2 November 2016). "The Party That Wants to Make Poland Great Again". The New York Times Magazine.

Sanacja or Endecja?

[1] Small Bayonet It's already stated in the article that the party presents itself as an heir to Sanacja, but according to NPOV, we would also have to add neo-Endecja because according to various reliable sources they draw on Endecja at least as much:[2][3][4][5] However, I think it should be explained in the article rather than the infobox as it is doubtful that most people reading this article will know what either of these terms means. (t · c) buidhe 08:46, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

References

[far-right-1] 
"Poland Bashes Immigrants, but Quietly Takes Christian Ones". New York Times. 26 March 2019. The far-right Law and Justice party came to power in 2015, at the height of Europe's migrant crisis, after running a campaign that inspired choruses of "Poland for Poles."
"Poland's in crisis again. Here's what you should know about the far right's latest power-grab". Washington Post. 28 November 2017. Since taking control of both the presidency and the parliament in November 2015, Poland's far-right Law and Justice (PiS) party has swiftly changed the rules for public media, the secret service, education, and the military.
"EU's top court shows how to tackle autocrats". Financial Times. 27 June 2019. Poland's ultra-conservative Law and Justice (PiS) government followed suit last year.
"Why will Poland not take in any Muslims?". Al Jazeera America. 8 November 2019. Poland's ultra-conservative Law and Justice Party (PiS) won a second term in office last month, a victory that critics fear will accelerate the country's slide towards authoritarianism.
"Poland's Government Is Systematically Silencing Opposition Voices". Foreign Policy. 31 May 2019. Today, it is the main voice holding the ruling far-right Law and Justice (PiS) party accountable, while facing constant attacks from that government.
"How Poland uses foreign lobbyists to fight PR wars and influence U.S. policy". Center for Responsive Politics. 19 February 2019. Since the 2015 election of the far-right Law and Justice party in Poland, the country's history with the Holocaust has become a point of contention with Israel.
"Zack Blumberg: Europe's far right movements come on strong, but what next?". The Michigan Daily. 11 April 2019. In the 2015 Polish parliamentary election, the far-right Law and Justice Party, or PiS, won with an outright majority (meaning they did not need to form a coalition to govern), something that had not been done in Poland since the fall of communism in 1989.
"Revealed: dozens of European politicians linked to US 'incubator for extremism'". Open Democracy. 27 March 2019. He had then recently left the far right Law and Justice (PiS) party over its failure to push through a constitutional amendment that would have banned abortion in all cases.
"What to Make of the European Elections". The Atlantic. 30 May 2019. In Poland, the far-right Law and Justice bested a broad alliance of moderate politicians.

[2] "Poland Bashes Immigrants, but Quietly Takes Christian Ones". New York Times. 26 March 2019. The far-right Law and Justice party came to power in 2015, at the height of Europe's migrant crisis, after running a campaign that inspired choruses of "Poland for Poles."

[3] "Poland's in crisis again. Here's what you should know about the far right's latest power-grab". Washington Post. 28 November 2017. Since taking control of both the presidency and the parliament in November 2015, Poland's far-right Law and Justice (PiS) party has swiftly changed the rules for public media, the secret service, education, and the military.

[4] "EU's top court shows how to tackle autocrats". Financial Times. 27 June 2019. Poland's ultra-conservative Law and Justice (PiS) government followed suit last year.

[5] "Why will Poland not take in any Muslims?". Al Jazeera America. 8 November 2019. Poland's ultra-conservative Law and Justice Party (PiS) won a second term in office last month, a victory that critics fear will accelerate the country's slide towards authoritarianism.

[6] "Poland's Government Is Systematically Silencing Opposition Voices". Foreign Policy. 31 May 2019. Today, it is the main voice holding the ruling far-right Law and Justice (PiS) party accountable, while facing constant attacks from that government.

[7] "How Poland uses foreign lobbyists to fight PR wars and influence U.S. policy". Center for Responsive Politics. 19 February 2019. Since the 2015 election of the far-right Law and Justice party in Poland, the country's history with the Holocaust has become a point of contention with Israel.

[8] "Zack Blumberg: Europe's far right movements come on strong, but what next?". The Michigan Daily. 11 April 2019. In the 2015 Polish parliamentary election, the far-right Law and Justice Party, or PiS, won with an outright majority (meaning they did not need to form a coalition to govern), something that had not been done in Poland since the fall of communism in 1989.

[9] "Revealed: dozens of European politicians linked to US 'incubator for extremism'". Open Democracy. 27 March 2019. He had then recently left the far right Law and Justice (PiS) party over its failure to push through a constitutional amendment that would have banned abortion in all cases.

[10] "What to Make of the European Elections". The Atlantic. 30 May 2019. In Poland, the far-right Law and Justice bested a broad alliance of moderate politicians.

[far-right2-2] 
Adam Zamoyski, ed. (2009). Poland: A History. Harper Press. p. 398. The ostensibly far-right PiS was supported by the poor, whom it seduced by its nationalistic , populist and socialist slogans.
Wojciech Sadurski, ed. (2019). Poland's Constitutional Breakdown. Oxford University Press. p. 3.
Victoria Carty, ed. (2020). The Immigration Crisis in Europe and the U.S.-Mexico Border in the New Era of Heightened Nativism. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 56. On a campaign slogan of "Poland for Poles," the far-right Law and Justice Party, represented by Jaroslaw Kaczynski, came to power in 2015 (Santora 2019).
Annik LaFarge, ed. (2020). Chasing Chopin: A Musical Journey Across Three Centuries, Four Countries, and a Half-Dozen Revolutions. Simon and Schuster. p. 22. The "very hard story" of Poland continues in the twenty-first century under the far-right Law and Justice Party, with its nationalist ...

[12] Adam Zamoyski, ed. (2009). Poland: A History. Harper Press. p. 398. The ostensibly far-right PiS was supported by the poor, whom it seduced by its nationalistic , populist and socialist slogans.

[13] Wojciech Sadurski, ed. (2019). Poland's Constitutional Breakdown. Oxford University Press. p. 3.

[14] Victoria Carty, ed. (2020). The Immigration Crisis in Europe and the U.S.-Mexico Border in the New Era of Heightened Nativism. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 56. On a campaign slogan of "Poland for Poles," the far-right Law and Justice Party, represented by Jaroslaw Kaczynski, came to power in 2015 (Santora 2019).

[15] Annik LaFarge, ed. (2020). Chasing Chopin: A Musical Journey Across Three Centuries, Four Countries, and a Half-Dozen Revolutions. Simon and Schuster. p. 22. The "very hard story" of Poland continues in the twenty-first century under the far-right Law and Justice Party, with its nationalist ...

[3] "The Rise of Poland's Far Right". Foreign Affairs. 18 December 2017.

[4] Traub, James (2 November 2016). "The Party That Wants to Make Poland Great Again". The New York Times Magazine.

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