Talk:Lazy Afternoon (Barbra Streisand album)/GA1

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: SNUGGUMS (talk · contribs) 16:32, 31 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]


I'll take this. Expect initial comments within a few days. Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:32, 31 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox[edit]

Done – Great! Carbrera (talk) 23:07, 2 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • There's no support within the article body for "traditional pop"; this needs to be removed or properly cited
Done – I used "pop standards" since this is what is cited. Carbrera (talk) 23:07, 2 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • If known, I would include the exact date "My Father's Song" was released
Not done – I'm afraid I cannot find any source that reveals an exact date. Carbrera (talk) 23:07, 2 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Lead[edit]

  • See above note on "traditional pop"
Done – reworded. Carbrera (talk) 21:24, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • It would help to specify whether "the mediocre response generated" refers to critical reception, commercial performance, or both
Done – added. Carbrera (talk) 21:24, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • Since covers are being discussed, may as well add the one of Stevie Wonder's "You and I"
Done – added. Carbrera (talk) 21:24, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • "it more exciting than ButterFly" seems like it's missing the word "was"
Done – added. Carbrera (talk) 21:24, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • I'm not sure if the tone of "simplistic" from "simplistic production" is appropriate
Done – removed. Carbrera (talk) 21:24, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • No need to single out AllMusic here; such detail is better for article body
Done – removed. Carbrera (talk) 21:24, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • "Commercially, the album peaked at number 12 on the United States' Billboard 200; it also reached the lower positions of the charts in both Australia and Canada"..... a bit wordy, let's go with "peaked at number 12 in the United States, number 42 in Canada, and number 84 in Australia" which is more concise
Done – removed. Carbrera (talk) 21:24, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • "It would later be certified gold by the Recording Industry Association of America for physical sales exceeding 500,000 copies"..... was certified, and even for material released before digital downloads and streaming, certifications don't definitively indicate how many copies were sold. With that in mind, maybe try "for shipments of 500,000 copies".
Done – removed. Carbrera (talk) 21:24, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • Since Adult Contemporary (chart) (what is linked to in this article) refers to the US chart, is there perhaps an article for the Canadian AC chart? If so, I would link to that where appropriate.
Done – I decided to remove the link since the article only discusses the US chart. Carbrera (talk) 21:24, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Development[edit]

  • I don't think "he was considered to be relatively unknown" is particularly relevant here
Done – removed. Carbrera (talk) 21:18, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • I'll assume good faith that the album liner notes indicate when this album was recorded, but do they really contain the album count or its release date? While I don't have access to them myself, a gut feeling tells me we'll need a separate citation for that bit.
Done – Thank you. I removed the album count because you're right – it's not supported; I just added that for whatever reason. Regarding the release date, my copy contains a sticker from the store that reads "Rel 10/14" so I assumed October 14, but this could be easily incorrect or interpreted other ways. With a little searching, I found and used the October 1st release date that Amazon has instead. Carbrera (talk) 21:18, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]

More to come later on...... Snuggums (talk / edits) 02:59, 1 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Music and lyrics[edit]

  • "As a whole, the album contains a mixture of several different genres of music, particularly pop standards. Other songs were influenced by disco and pop music"..... no need to state twice that it's largely a pop album
Done – reworded. Carbrera (talk) 00:08, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • "poetic nature song" seems to be a rather short description for the title track; let's add more substance
Done – added a bit more information regarding the song. Carbrera (talk) 00:08, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • For "My Father's Song", it might be worth noting any influence his death when she was a toddler had on the lyrics (although obviously not in as much detail as a song article would go into). On another note, this isn't the place to note its single release; that's what the "singles" section is for.
Done – hopefully what I added here is a bit more informative. Carbrera (talk) 00:08, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • "The track among others was considered to be"..... let's specify this is AllMusic's interpretation, and maybe use something along the lines of "Like other album tracks, it was considered"
Done – added and reworded. Carbrera (talk) 00:08, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • "Streisand incorporated her personal 'emotions' into the lyrics" also seems bare; go into specific details
Done – I added more from the quote; looking back on it, I think what is written now is more concise. Regardless, I found the original quote from Pohly to be difficult to understand, hence why the quote in the article was skimpy at first. Carbrera (talk) 00:08, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • "a cover of Four Tops' 'Shake Me, Wake Me (When It's Over)', which was also the album's second single".... see previous note on single count
Done – removed. Carbrera (talk) 00:08, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • The "herself" from "Streisand herself claimed" is unnecessary when this section doesn't include anybody else's comments on the matter
Done – agreed; removed. Carbrera (talk) 00:08, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Singles[edit]

  • See above note on Adult contemporary link
Done – fixed. Carbrera (talk) 23:49, 2 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • I don't think we need to note how the "Disco Singles" chart is now defunct
Done – removed. Carbrera (talk) 23:49, 2 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Critical reception[edit]

  • "Lazy Afternoon has received positive reviews from music critics" needs to be cited, or it violates WP:SYNTH
Done – force of habit. My bad. Carbrera (talk) 23:12, 2 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • Unless I'm reading something wrong, The Queitus seems to be Rumer telling Simon Price her opinion on the album
Done – well now I feel like a complete idiot. I totally misread that section of the article. Yikes. Carbrera (talk) 23:12, 2 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • "Heliked" → "He liked"
Done – corrected. Carbrera (talk) 23:12, 2 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Commercial performance[edit]

  • I'd remove the "and" from "And later" because it makes this a fragment rather than a full sentence and thus is grammatically incorrect
Done – removed. Carbrera (talk) 21:34, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • "for physical sales exceeding 500,000 copies"..... see my above comment within the "lead" section
Done – reworded. Carbrera (talk) 21:34, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
  • Certifications not withstanding, are definitive sales figures for any nations known?
Not done – I wish some were known but I unfortunately cannot find any sources for this. Carbrera (talk) 21:34, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Track listing[edit]

  • Did Holmes and Lesser produce all of the tracks? I see that their production had been mentioned within "critical reception", yet none of the song's producers are listed here. Either way, all credited producers should be listed.
Done – I added the note immediately above the listing; this should've been here to begin with. Carbrera (talk) 02:23, 4 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Personnel[edit]

  • Is "conduction" for Rupert Holmes referring to his songwriting credits? If so, I'd just use that term instead to match the formatting of other songwriters credited. Also, including "(tracks 2, 3, 6, 10)" at the very end suggests they were his only contributions at all, so be sure this impression is accurate or rearrange to avoid misleading ideas.
Done – actually, Holmes is listed as "conductor" in the liner notes; it looks like I accidentally left out "songwriting" when I made this list. Good catch. Carbrera (talk) 21:36, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Charts and certifications[edit]

  • These should have their own sections and not be bundled into one, even if it only made a few charts and received one certification
Done – separated. Carbrera (talk) 23:50, 2 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]

References[edit]

  • I will assume good faith that the offline works (except perhaps for liners citing release dates) support the content they are attributed to and are credible. However, "Barbra Streisand Archives" is not an official site (despite what the title might suggest) and needs to be replaced.
Done – I mentioned the liners issue above and replaced it with the Amazon source, and I removed the Archives site and the accompanying quotation from it. Carbrera (talk) 21:41, 3 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]

External links[edit]

  • No good reason to list Discogs when it's a bad site to use; better to have other links like iTunes or AllMusic (if anything)
Done – removed; I don't see the need for the iTunes and AllMusic links. Carbrera (talk) 02:23, 4 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]

Overall[edit]

  • Prose: Needs some work, but nothing too bad
  • Referencing: One subpar citation, and occasional unsupported bits of text
  • Coverage: Certain parts could use elaboration
  • Neutrality: Nothing biased detected
  • Stability: No concerns here
  • Media: Album cover has appropriate FUR
  • Verdict: Placing the nomination on hold. I will give you seven days to address the above comments. Snuggums (talk / edits) 03:22, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
SNUGGUMS – I really appreciate the thoroughness of your review. I addressed your points; I left a bunch of comments above and believe I touched on everything. Thank you very much, Carbrera (talk) 02:23, 4 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
My pleasure. Just a few things remain: 1) We need something to support overall studio album count that isn't just what other Wikipedia articles state. You can do this within the "Development" section. 2) The "lackluster response" still fails specify that this is refers to critic reviews, if what you've inserted in the lead is any indication. 3) The "Lazy Afternoon has received positive reviews from music critics" bit in "Critical reception" still needs to be sourced to avoid WP:SYNTH. 4) Something tells me more reviews exist, even if only from other biographers, and any that can be found should of course be implemented. Snuggums (talk / edits) 03:51, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
1. – Could you help me out with this? I cannot find a source that blatantly states 'seventeenth' even though it's obvious it is. Anything you could suggest?
2. – I added 'critical' in the "Development" section to reflect what was being said in the lead. Carbrera (talk) 01:01, 5 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
3. – Frick; I said I removed it above but looks like I didn't. Now it's definitely gone. Carbrera (talk) 01:01, 5 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
4. – I searched both Google Books and Google Newspapers for additional coverage without any luck; I am afraid I don't know of any other search engines to use in order to obtain more. Carbrera (talk) 01:01, 5 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
SNUGGUMS – I addressed your final things above. Thanks again, Carbrera (talk) 01:01, 5 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
For what it's worth, I couldn't find any good material that stated or even suggested anything about album count myself, but The Films of Barbra Streisand notes it was well-reviewed. Seems OK to use. Snuggums (talk / edits) 02:07, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
SNUGGUMS – Sounds good; thanks for that. I added it to the reception section. Carbrera (talk) 03:19, 5 August 2017 (UTC).[reply]
Sure thing. After a slight tweak, I find this good to go and am now passing the nomination. Well done! Snuggums (talk / edits) 13:00, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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