Talk:Leader of the Opposition (Croatia)
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simplified table[edit]
Sundostund wrote:
- The old version is way too complicated. There's too much data, and its hard to understand who was the Opposition Leader at which point in time. Of course, "Term of office" section is unofficial, as well as the position itself.
I don't think there's too much data - there's exactly the right amount of data to avoid making it seem like there's an almighty leader of the opposition... if you followed Croatian politics, you'd realize how sometimes the President of the Republic is much more of a leader of the opposition than anyone else, and that the opposition party leaders don't lead the opposition in their own right, but primarily through the notion of their party being the main opposition party. The old table helped illustrate those finer points of context; it shouldn't be removed. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 20:37, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
- In my opinion, the main purpose of this table (as well as all lists of leaders of opposition, in any country) should be to very simply show who was the leader of the main opposition party in parliament at a point in time. There's no need to note, as part of the table, who was the President and Prime Minister during a leader's tenure. Beside that, the old version didn't have pictures of the leaders, so I added them as part of the remodeling of the table. I truly believe this new version is much better, more simplified and way easier to figure out who was the leader at which point in time. --Sundostund (talk) 09:25, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
- You didn't listen to a word I said, did you? --Joy [shallot] (talk) 10:58, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
- I did listen what you said, but I don't agree with you. You said, among other things: Sometimes the President of the Republic is much more of a leader of the opposition than anyone else, and that the opposition party leaders don't lead the opposition in their own right, but primarily through the notion of their party being the main opposition party. As you know, the President of the Republic act very rarely as a "leader of the opposition" (it wasn't the case for sure in the 1990s, as well as in the present time, because the President and the Prime Minister has the same party background). Next, I don't know who could be called the "opposition leader" beside the leader of the main opposition party. --Sundostund (talk) 13:10, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
- Well, all I'm saying is that if you want to stick to "the truth", you ought to provide references for it. Google 'mesić vođa oporbe' or 'josipović vođa oporbe' and see how much material you get and compare it to analogous searches for 'račan vođa oporbe' or 'milanović vođa oporbe' or 'budiša vođa oporbe'. It's a political talking point in and of itself nowadays, nothing even resembling a structured position or office. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 07:53, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
- The President of the Republic may act as a "leader of the opposition" in some cases, if he disagree with government policies on some issues etc (that happens almost exclusively when President and Prime Minister doesn't have the same party background). But in the most cases, the real "leader of the opposition" is the leader of the main opposition party, who pretend to become the new Prime Minister. Of course, Croatia doesn't have the classical Westminster system like UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc where the official position of the leader of the opposition exist, but that's not the issue here. Croatia de facto has the leader of the opposition, and that person can only be the leader of the largest opposition party. And, at the end, lets not forget - the President of the Republic isn't just a politician, he have some amount of state power himself, even if his position is mostly ceremonial. He's the highest ranking official within the state. So, he can't be considered as a part of opposition, or even its leader. --Sundostund (talk) 10:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
- Well, all I'm saying is that if you want to stick to "the truth", you ought to provide references for it. Google 'mesić vođa oporbe' or 'josipović vođa oporbe' and see how much material you get and compare it to analogous searches for 'račan vođa oporbe' or 'milanović vođa oporbe' or 'budiša vođa oporbe'. It's a political talking point in and of itself nowadays, nothing even resembling a structured position or office. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 07:53, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
- Assertions, assertions... If you want to argue something like that, you should cite some sources. I don't think the notion of the President being the main opposition leader is less notable in Croatia than the notion that it's implicitly the leader of the largest parliamentary opposition party. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 10:41, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
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