Talk:Leevi Madetoja

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Expansion underway[edit]

Hello, fellow editors. Just wanted to notify the community that I am presently at work on a large-scale expansion of the Madetoja bio, which can be found here. Any comments or suggestions are, of course, welcome! Sgvrfjs (talk) 07:22, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Update 1: Still at work on the expansion, which has now crossed 50,000 bytes! But there is still a lot more to do... Sgvrfjs (talk) 00:05, 29 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Update 2: Although I still have not finished the biography expansion, I have decided to transfer from my sandbox to the Madetoja page what finished sections and subsections I do have. I still have some unfinished material in my sandbox. Sgvrfjs (talk) 01:33, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A note on the lede: I have now completed the lede for the Madetoja article. Enterprising editors may notice that some of the lede's content is not yet in the main body of the article. I have it in the works and plan to move it over, piece by piece, sooner rather than later. This content also contains the citations for the quotes that the lede references. Sgvrfjs (talk) 17:00, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Update 3: Progress continues. Two sections remain to be written: 1) Personal life (i.e., relationship with wife, L. Onerva); and, 2) Music (i.e., idiom, influences, and major works in brief). Also, I have Finnusertop helping out on the translation of the main Finnish language biography, which will be useful in filling in a few key missing details. The list of compositions is also progressing nicely and is about 65% complete (orchestral works subcategory, 100%). We also now have a navbox, as well as starter articles on Madetoja's most important works: the First Symphony, the Second Symphony, the Third Symphony, Okon Fuoko, and the Elegia. Sgvrfjs (talk) 04:22, 2 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Plans for an FA on main page[edit]

@Gerda Arendt, Lingzhi, and Ipigott: Hey all. In an attempt to transform my running monologue into a dialogue, I wanted to get your thoughts on the following idea: the 130th anniversary of Madetoja's birth is due on February 17, 2017, and I thought it might be nice to get this article (albeit still in progress) up to FA so that it can appear on the main page as the Featured Article for that day. I did not, honestly, really enjoy the FA process on The Oceanides and swore I'd never attempt another one, but here I find myself with different plans, provided the Madetoja bio wouldn't, in your opinion, be too much of a heavy lift. If you have time to browse the article and tell me whether you think it'd be a pretty quick/easy FA candidate, I'd appreciate it. It's my first composer biography article and I see the final product coming in at 80,000 bytes (which is about average, I believe, for the FA composer articles). Also, as it sits presently, what would you rate it? (It's currently still rated as a stub.) Thanks! Sgvrfjs (talk) 21:18, 3 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like a good plan. I recommend to try GA soon, then have a peer review, then FAC. We have time enough. I have a FAC open without a precious peer review, just because there wouldn't be time until the hoped-for date. Help welcome ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:50, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Sgvrfjs for giving me such a refreshing start to the day. I've read quickly through the article and am impressed by the level of detail you have already added. It's no longer a stub: for the time being I've given it a B rating but it seems to me that with a bit more work you could quickly go for GA. I suggest you try to expand on the music section (which often attracts attention by those who do not have time to go through the full article), perhaps expanding it by moving or adapting some of the comment on his compositions from the career sections or drawing on the separate articles you have written on his various works. I can help you out with a bit of CE work on the article but I don't think I'll have much time for constructive editing as there are a number of assignments on Scandinavians and Greenland I would like to deal with over the next month or so. Keep me posted on progress and let me know if you need help with any specific items.--Ipigott (talk) 07:58, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt, Lingzhi, and Ipigott: Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I'll put it up for GA once I "finnish" (pun!) the Music and Personal life sections, as that should be pretty much it on content, aside from a few more end of life details. Ipigott, thanks for the edits you've made; already you've helped to increase the article's clarity. Just two comments: 1) I think I'd like to stick with the British ". rather than switching over to the American ." , as with The Oceanides FAN, the contributors wanted European conventions for the dates and punctuation (but not spelling) since the article pertains to a European composer (while, we're at it, I've also gone with the British Sibelius's rather than American Sibelius' , which was decided on The Oceanides as well; I also believe this is what you did on your work on Sibelius's main bio); 2) I'm fine with removing quotations from the lede, but does that mean we need to change the wording? I'm a bit worried about that "the balance, clarity, refinement of expression, and technical polish of classicism" being too close (well, exact, really) for comfort. As for specifics I could use, I'm not good with understanding the "& nbsp" thing you guys did to The Oceanides, but I know that the whole Madetoja article needs it. Sgvrfjs (talk) 20:10, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I stay pretty busy in real life, but I'll do what I can when I can, especially after it passes GA. Will look in from time to time. Tks Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 06:10, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Sgvrfjs: Several problems with references e.g. no source for Viitasalo, plus website currently attributed to Korhonen appears to be attributable instead to the Madetoja Foundation. Will continue to check and fix little by little. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 10:08, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Help with images[edit]

@Revent: Sorry to pester you. For the time being I at work on the articles about Madetoja's operas and the ballet. The Finnish Opera has some great historical images from the premieres, as well as the playbills. I was hopeful we could get them loaded up on Wikipedia under fair-use; they'd really enhance these articles. Here are the five playbills:

http://encore.opera.fi/attachment/preview/20430.jpg (Ostrobothnians, Finnish)
http://encore.opera.fi/attachment/preview/20440.jpg (Ostrobothnians, Swedish)
http://encore.opera.fi/attachment/preview/39710.jpg (Juha)
http://encore.opera.fi/attachment/preview/33990.jpg (Okon Fuoko, Finnish)
http://encore.opera.fi/attachment/preview/34000.jpg (Onok Fuoko, Swedish)

As well as the three corresponding pages:

Ostrobothnians first production: http://encore.opera.fi/en/production/20031108
Juha first production: http://encore.opera.fi/en/production/20030902
Okon Fuoko first production: http://encore.opera.fi/en/production/20031060

As you can see, there are some great images from the productions at the bottoms of these three pages. Maybe we could snag some of these, too? Anyway, seeing as how I am terrible at loading up images because I am so bad with the legal side, and seeing as how you have generously aided me before on other Madetoja images, I thought I'd ask you if you could find the time and would be willing to do it. I'd like these to be able to hold up to the strict FA examination, so might as well bring in a pro! I do think this will be all I will need and that I won't have to demand more of you in the future! Sgvrfjs (talk) 06:24, 23 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Sgvrfjs: I don't consider it pestering, you have done a lot of excellent work here. So... it's nice to actually have firm, exact dates for works. The playbills... the odds of any having been published in the US are minimal, and they can be treated as 'corporate' works. The first two are old enough that they were PD in Finland on the URAA restoration date (in 1996), and so are simply PD. They can be uploaded to Commons as {{PD-Finland}} and {{PD-URAA-noformalities-unrestored}}. The rest are in that URAA limbo... they are PD in Finland by now, but were not on the URAA date, and so have a restored US copyright. It's silly, but that can't be on Commons, but can presumably be fair use here.

The photographs themselves... the situation is much simpler, again, because we know the exact date. These are 'simple photographs'.. they were not 'works of art', but just documenting the events.. as such, they only had a copyright term of 50 years after creation. They are also quite unlikely to have been published in the US (they were probably never published) and so would have entered the PD well before the URAA date... they can all be uploaded to Commons as {{PD-Finland50}} and {{PD-URAA-noformalities-unrestored}}.

Hope this helps.. if you want me to actually upload them, just poke me. Revent^talk 02:34, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Revent: POKE! Thanks for looking into this...seems as though you're willing to take it a step further and do the uploading, and I happily defer to and encourage you. I might also mention that I have noticed that the image that I use in the lede is kind of blurry. Can we sharpen it any? Also, if you have time, I'd be curious to know, via your expertise, whether all the images used in the article would stand up to FA criteria. Sgvrfjs (talk) 03:08, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Revent: re-POKE! Hope your projects go well. I'd love a bit of your time, when you have a free moment. Sgvrfjs (talk) 02:33, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ref errors[edit]

@Silence of Järvenpää:, refs 14, 23, 24, 32, 51, 80, 83 don't link to any sources—are there perhaps sources used on other articles that you add here? Aza24 (talk) 06:42, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Aza24: Thanks for alerting me to this (rather embarrassing) error on my part. I am in the midst of other projects at the moment, both Wiki and real-life, but will take a look at the unsourced Madetoja references in the near future. However, this was a project I did about what, five years ago (!?), and my memory being what it is, I fear we may, eventually, have to purge the refs. I'll look for my old notes. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 20:07, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]