Talk:Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver

Improvements

In the Development section, I found that the idea of a fallen vampire is inspired by the epic poem Paradise Lost and it uses a Gamespot article as a reference (as the reference #22), however, this article says that Paradise Lost is William Blake's poem, but in fact it is John Milton's, you may refer to Wikipedia's article on it in order to realise.Lokatoyo (talk) 07:38, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

I found that reading the 'Characters' section, it was hard to read due to a chronic lack of variation in sentence structure. Maybe this could be remedied by the use of bullet points or improving the style of the paragraphs? Don Black 19:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I tried cleaning it up to make more sense. Revert the change if needed.TBID2 (talk) 20:07, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

The original complaint here was from 16 months ago and most likely does not apply to the current version, which has been rewritten already. —TKD [talk][c] 20:21, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Hello friend, you cited that I broke some rules of style when you reverted it. May I ask which rules you are referring to so that I may puruse those sections of the Manual of Style? I appreciate it, thank you.TBID2 (talk) 21:03, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Sure; sorry if the message seemed abrupt; I should've realized that the MOS is huge. The dashes originally in the section were em dashes, which are correct (see WP:MOS#Dashes; alternatively, spaced en dashes can be used); your revision changed them to hyphens. Also, the revision presented events that occur during this game in past tense; fiction is generally narrated in the narrative present tense, as if the events of the work were ongoing; see Wikipedia:Manual of style (writing about fiction)#Contextual presentation. Also, titles and abbreviated titles of games (e.g., Soul Reaver) and other long-form works are set in italics; see WP:MOS#Italics and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (titles). —TKD [talk][c] 22:01, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Correcting my edit as you suggest it would look like:

The protagonist of Soul Reaver Soul Reaver is the vampire turned wraith Raziel. Surpassing Kain in vampiric evolution, Raziel was is cast into the abyss to die. Although Kain was the protagonist of Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain, he now serves as the primary antagonist and final boss of Soul Reaver Soul Reaver.

Raziel was is later brought back as a wraith by The Elder God, whom assists Raziel by directing him to his next target. The spirit of Ariel, Kain's predecessor as the former guardian of the Pillar of Balance, also serves as an aid to Raziel as he progresses through the game offering advice of where to go next.

Raziel also meets his evolved vampire brothers—Melchiah, Zephon, Rahab and Dumah—who serve as the game's main story bosses. Raziel gains a rudimentary version of the unique abilities each of his brothers developed during his absence after he by devoursing their soul. Raziel's fifth brother, Turel, was omitted due to time constraints on development.

I believe any remaining past tense references are appropriate because they have already taken place when you take control of Raziel and he himself in the game refers to these events in the past tense when he narrates the story. If the modification is agreed upon, would it be suitable to re-edit the article with my entry? Ancient complaints aside, I believe this would make the 'Characters' section flow better. If disagreed upon, I will leave it as is. Thank you for your consideration.TBID2 (talk) 23:02, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I do think the flow could be tweaked, so your suggestion does have some merit. In terms of copyediting, I have the following comments:

• The paragraphs seem a bit short, and one (combined) paragraph wouldn't be extremely long.
• It's either "vampire-wraith" or "vampire-turned-wraith", because it's a compound adjective. Which do you think works better? I have no strong opinion.
• We haven't gotten to the story yet, so the "surpassing Kain" bit is going to be confusing and unnecessary; it suffices to state that he casts Raziel to die, is the protagonist of Blood Omen (remember, that fiction still exists, and you're describing a characteristic in this case, not an event) and is the antagonist of this game.
• "The Elder God, who assists"; "whom" is used for objects, not subjects.
• "serves as an aid to Raziel as he progresses through the game offering advice of where to go next": "offering advice of where to go next" is a dangling modifier.
• "Raziel gains a rudimentary version of the unique abilities each of his brothers develop during his absence by devouring their soul": another dangling modifier; someone could interpret the latter part of this sentence as "the brother develop abilities by devouring souls".

I'm pointing these out not simply to be critical, but so that you can spot these sort of issues in other Wikipedia articles. There are many such issues, and Wikipedia needs good copyeditors. I did make some tweaks based on your suggestions. Is this better? —TKD [talk][c] 01:23, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

The edits we are making together are shaping up nicely. While I wasn't 100% grammatically correct, I was still conveying a more complete idea of what should be said. The Characters section needed a little more description and structure to make it more clear who the characters are and the role they fill. You brought back those memories of grade school English class where the teacher had us rewrite sentences several ways until you find the best one. This is good practice before I get to the more serious articles.

1. Personally, I believe "vampire-wraith" should be "vampire-turned-wraith".

2. The sentence at the end, "Raziel's master, Kain, is the game's primary antagonist and final boss." can be removed because this is already taken care of by the second sentence.

3. The section of the paragraph, "and narrates the story", isn't necessarily correct as The Elder God speaks directly to Raziel describing the events that had transpired in the past, while it is in fact Raziel who narrates what is currently happening to the player.

4. I still have a problem with the sentence, "Ariel, the ghost of the former guardian of the Pillar of Balance and Kain's predecessor, also offers Raziel advice on occasion.", specifically the 'ghost of the former guardian' section. I could read this section many different ways; was she a ghost belonging to the previous guardian or is she herself the previous guardian in spirit form? I will have to allude to a version of the sentence akin to the rendition that I suggested previously. I do admit that my previous version could also be read as being that the previous guardian was a spirit. Do you have any ideas of how to improve on the wording of the sentence further?TBID2 (talk) 16:06, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

1. Done.
2. Oversight on my part when I revised the paragraph. Removed.
3. Changed to "describes previous events in the story".
4. Changed to "Ariel, who preceded Kain as the guardian of the Pillar of Balance, appears as a spirit and offers Raziel advice on occasion."

—TKD [talk][c] 20:42, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Awesome, the Characters section looks great!TBID2 (talk) 15:50, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

On the Playstation? Eshuse meh?

I have to say that...I Cannot find any proof that Soul Reaver was ever a Playstation game. If I'm wrong, please revert my edit and give me some kind of link to prove such. Until such time, it needs to remain said as a DreamCast and PC game ONLY(No PSX). —Preceding unsigned comment added by HeartCard (talk • contribs) 21:12, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually Soul Reaver is a PlayStation game as I actually own the PS1 copy of the game. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 01:35, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

You could check the GameSpot Article on this title for proof. TBID2 (talk) 19:13, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, if I am not wrong, the game was first released in the original Playstation, then later ported to both Dreamcast and PC. 201.254.74.29 (talk) 23:42, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Soul Reaver Dreamcast.jpg

Image:Soul Reaver Dreamcast.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 23:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Soul Reaver PSX.jpg

Image:Soul Reaver PSX.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 23:38, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Main page

Just dropped by and got thinking in advance here... if anyone out there is still watching this page, I suggest the article should definitely be nominated for inclusion on Wikipedia's main page for August 16th. It's going to be the game's 10th anniversary. Monere (talk) 23:07, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Planning to do so. It'll also serve as a birthday gift to see an article I worked so hard on on the front page - I turn 21 the day after. :) The Clawed One (talk) 23:50, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Gah, that "requests" page is damn confusing...not even sure if I'll be allowed to nominate since it was promoted not too long ago. The Clawed One (talk) 00:01, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Well I wish a happy birthday to you in advance and all the best :). I hope you can figure out how those nominations work in time - I tried a while ago but the old cranium just can't keep up with the whole points system, and I wouldn't feel right nominating it myself anyway since I haven't even edited it more than once. Monere (talk) 22:10, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

It's been nominated, and has 3 points. So far no one as commented. The Clawed One (talk) 22:19, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

excellent! i have very fond memories of this game. i'm tempted to reinstall it, actually. --Kaini (talk) 00:11, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Sales

I tried to find a more 'official' source for the ps1 release sales figures (1.5m) other than the source we have right now - which is actually just a sales mention by a gamespot editor with no source provided. VGChartz on the other hand has a lower figure on their site http://www.vgchartz.com/game/5256/legacy-of-kain-soul-reaver/ I don't know about you, but a site dedicated to sales charts should be a more reliable source than a simple mention in a news article. So which is it? 1.04m or 1.5m? Punkalyptic (talk) 05:06, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

1.5 million, I think. GameSpot's article which you mention is a duplicated version of a press release from Eidos, which included the 1.5m mention, and was widespread on several sites (see for instance this). --Monere (talk) 17:08, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Right. Thanks for the official source. Maybe we should replace Gamespot link with the one you just provided. Punkalyptic (talk) 20:40, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

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