Talk:Legal teams involved in the Mueller special counsel investigation

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Title[edit]

I think forking this material was a good idea, but the title is wrong. For one thing, investigation and legal teams should be lowercase. For another, I don't think a dash is the right punctuation. I think we need advice from people who know about titling policy before undertaking any move (and for heavens sake let's not move war), but let's figure out what the proper title for this article should be. --MelanieN (talk) 22:39, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@DannyS712, JFG, BullRangifer, Soibangla, and Starship.paint: Pinging possibly interested users for comment. --MelanieN (talk) 22:43, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@MelanieN: I agree with the capitalization suggestions. However, I believe that the dash could be kept. For example, Trump–Russia dossier and Facebook–Cambridge Analytica data scandal, both of which are labeled as "see also" within their sections of the main investigation page, both have "-" in their titles. Should we just get rid of the spaces? --DannyS712 (talk) 23:07, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The dash - actually an en-dash - has a different meaning at those articles; it shows a connection between the first word and the second, that they are both equally related to the rest of the title but not part of it. What we are looking for is a punctuation that shows "legal teams" to be a subsection of "Special Counsel investigation". Maybe "Special Counsel investigation: legal teams"? or even "Special Counsel investigation legal teams"? We need help here, MOS is not my specialty. --MelanieN (talk) 23:38, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, this is interesting, found at WP:TITLE: Do not use titles suggesting that one article forms part of another: even if an article is considered subsidiary to another (as where summary style is used), it should be named independently. For example, an article on transport in Azerbaijan should not be given a name like "Azerbaijan/Transport" or "Azerbaijan (transport)", use Transport in Azerbaijan. (This does not always apply in non-article namespaces; see WP:Subpages.) --MelanieN (talk) 23:41, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
WP:SPINOFF seems to suggest we could name it "Special Counsel investigation legal teams" with no intervening punctuation. They give examples like "Jimmy Savile sexual abuse scandal is a subarticle of Jimmy Savile" and "O. J. Simpson murder case and O. J. Simpson robbery case are subarticles of O. J. Simpson". --MelanieN (talk) 23:44, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Your suggestion of Special Counsel investigation legal teams seems pretty good. LOL! We are literally spinning off the original content. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 02:58, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I agree on the upper/lower-case remarks, and I think Special Counsel investigation legal teams is an ok title. But I think there are more alternatives:
  • Legal teams of the Special Counsel investigation
which I think is less awkward, and possibly with disambiguation:
  • Special Counsel investigation (2017–present) legal teams
  • Legal teams of the Special Counsel investigation (2017–present)
Personally, I would prefer Legal teams of the Special Counsel investigation, with or without the disambiguation.
HandsomeFella (talk) 08:24, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Legal teams of the Special Counsel investigation (2017–present) to differentiate them from legal teams of other investigations. starship.paint ~ KO 13:00, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Starship.paint, MelanieN, and HandsomeFella: Given that this page deals with all of the legal teams involved in the investigation, rather than the legal team of the investigators, I think that the use of a title that includes "Legal teams of" should be avoided. I'd like to suggest/agree with:
* Legal teams involved in the Special Counsel investigation (2017–present)
* Special Counsel investigation legal teams (2017–present)
* Special Counsel investigation (2017–present) legal teams
Any of the above could be done without the "(2017–present)", as long as disambiguation pages were altered accordingly
--DannyS712 (talk) 23:44, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I see your point, and from your alternatives, I prefer #3, #1 comes in second.
HandsomeFella (talk) 06:09, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Legal teams involved in the Special Counsel investigation (2017–present) to differentiate them from legal teams of other investigations. starship.paint ~ KO 12:54, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done I have moved the article to Legal teams involved in the Special Counsel investigation (2017–present) pursuant to the above discussion. --DannyS712 (talk)

I don't really like it - it seems like a very unlikely search term - but as long as there is a redirect from Special Counsel Investigation - Legal Teams I am OK with it. --MelanieN alt (talk) 22:53, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! MelanieN alt (talk) 15:52, 18 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@MelanieN: For some reason I only received your ping now. I approve of the chosen title "Legal teams involved in…" — JFG talk 23:16, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions re: present tense & globalization[edit]

I'm not very familiar with this article subject, but I noticed a few places where the article describes things in present tense or uses the word "current", despite the sources being a few years old. I wanted to suggest it's preferable to word things like "as of 2018" or "as of 2021" (etc), that way the text won't need to be updated as frequently and readers won't be misinformed (see MOS:REALTIME for the guidelines).

Also, the intro sounds a bit informal and assumes the reader already knows this article is about American politics, so it just needs more complete context for a global audience (such as explicitly stating what country this is occurring in, etc).Pythagimedes (talk) 05:14, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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