Talk:Leopard-Skin Pill-Box Hat

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Leopard-Skin Pill-Box Hat has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Leopard-Skin Pill-Box Hat is part of the Blonde on Blonde series, a good topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 29, 2023	Good article nominee	Listed
August 8, 2023	Good topic candidate	Promoted

Current status: Good article

Songs

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Bob Dylan Mid‑importance

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First live performance

Dylan's site lists the first live performance as 26 February 1966, but a review by Norman Rowe in the Richmond Times-Dispatch, 12 February 1966, suggests that it may have been performed earlier. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:43, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There's also Edwin Howard's review in The Memphis Press-Scimitar, February 11, 1966. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:49, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 02:42, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Leopard-Skin Pill-Box Hat/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs) 10:46, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

A delightful, thoroughly researched, and well-cited article.

I've fixed a few minor typographic issues.

Thank you. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:29, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"melodically and lyrically resembles Lightnin' Hopkins's 'Automobile Blues'". The brief quotations illustrate the resemblance of the lyrics (more or less) but we're given no clue as to the nature of the melodic resemblance. We could certainly use a snippet of the main melody (as a line of sheet music) in both cases under fair use, given that this is reliably cited. Alternatively the article would benefit from a brief musicological statement about the nature of the resemblance.

I've looked again in sources, and come up with very little. I've added a bit about lyrics, but sources that discuss the music just note a similarity without going into any detail. Do you know any example articles that use "a snippet of the main melody (as a line of sheet music)"? (My understanding of musical theory is very shallow, so a bit of hand-holding would be very helpful.) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:13, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've done so on several Carl Michael Bellman articles, for what it's worth. I don't think this can be mandated at GA so it's entirely optional, just a nice way to show what is alleged to have happened. Chiswick Chap (talk) 02:36, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[30] Sydney Morning Herald states that the song is a transformation of "In the Evenin'" (after performance by Esther Phillips 1966, perhaps, if the timings are right; song by Leroy Carr, 1935). Might be worth a mention.

I'll check some sources for the two points above; might take a few days as I won't be able to get to the British Library 'til early next week. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:49, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't seen this connection anywhere else; however I've added to the article text, with a footnote. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:13, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"some kind of illusion." Makes no sense as written. Dylan appears to mean "allusion" [to a named person] here: is this a typo or a mistake on his part? If this can't be answered, it might be as well to change "referred to specific people" in the next sentence to "alluded to specific people" to provide some clarity.

It also appears as "illusion" in Cott's Bob Dylan: The Essential Interviews (2017). I looked at a couple of sources to see if they picked up on this point, but found nothing. I've edited the quote, but happy to pursue other options if that doesn't work. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:29, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that works. Chiswick Chap (talk) 03:12, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The part of 'Composition and lyrical interpretation' from 'Some journalists' to 'brand new automobile.' concerns Edie Sedgwick. It would make sense to make all of this a subsection ('Possible allusion to Edie Sedgwick', or near offer), with the other two paragraphs grouped as something like 'Fashion victim'.

I've created subsections. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:29, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Probably wikilink Eric Clapton, quote or no, as readers won't necessarily know him. He's linked in 'Live performances' but that's further on down.

Done. I know a later wikilink would now be allowed, but I removed that. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:29, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The footnote should probably be cited.

Tweaked, and added two citations. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:29, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Images are properly licensed.

Spot-checks are all fine. Amused to see in [44] that Bono actually came back on stage, having also not mugged up "Blowing in the Wind", to make up his own lyrics to that song. I guess that's a footnote or off-topic but it certainly improves the Bono story.

Indeed; I was highly tempted to include it here. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:29, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Go on, let's have a footnote then. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:32, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Footnote added. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:13, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Anthony Scaduto's 1971 Bob Dylan was ISBN 9780448020341, OCLC 33526791.

Added the ISBN. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:29, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It would be helpful to provide a link to the lyrics of 'Automobile Blues' in 'External links'.

I've failed to find a link that doesn't violate WP:COPYVIOEL, I'm afraid. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:13, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Chiswick Chap I've addressed what I could, hopefully without introducing too many new issues; the point about the musical resemblance to "Automobile Blues" is perhaps the biggest outstanding item; I guess there's an argument that if it this is not in sources we don't need to expand on it, but I'm happy to make changes to benefit readers. Thanks again, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:13, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's all fine, it's a great little article. Chiswick Chap (talk) 02:37, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Harmonica

There is no harmonica on the album version of Leopard Skin Pill-Box Hat, however the personnel section of the article lists Bob Dylan as having played harmonica on it. The only versions of the song that feature harmonica are outtakes from the Blonde on Blonde sessions, but the personnel section notes that it is specifically for the album version so these outtakes should not be considered. Harper Reed 20 (talk) 16:35, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Harper Reed 20: The Wikipedia policies are that " all material must be attributable to reliable, published sources" and "Articles must not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that reaches or implies a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves." See WP:V and WP:OR. As mentioned in my eidt, the Sanders book mentions harmonica. So does Olof Bjorner ([1]). Do you have a reliable source that doesn't show that Dylan played harmonica, or, even better, a source that says he didn't? Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:45, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sanders's book only states that Dylan played harmonica during take one for the song. As I stated above, this much is true, Dylan did play the harmonica on outtake versions of Leopard Skin Pill-Box Hat. He does not, however, play it on the actual album version, which is what the Wikipedia article is specifying. The version of Leopard Skin Pill Box Hat that made the album is not take one, nor is it from the February 14th sessions that made up the early recordings of Leopard Skin Pill-Box Hat, something that the article already mentions. Harper Reed 20 (talk) 02:15, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]