Talk:Lever tumbler lock

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Merger Proposal with 5 Lever Lock

I suggest that 5 lever lock be included in the Lever locks article, as they are the same thing. It seems pointless to have a duplicate page of what is the same type of locking mechanism. Willh26 (talk) 16:49, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

merge Many things are "the same", but the point in this case is that we'd have a clearer article in one piece, rather than two. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:12, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Done Any complaints, you'll no doubt be able to revert it. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:15, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Name

Why is this article called lever tumbler lock? Nowhere in the industry or anywhere else is the mechanism of a lever lock called a "tumbler". The name tumbler is used extensively in the US for pin tumblers. The lever lock does not have a tumbler. The name should be changed to "Lever lock". Thoughts? Ω ENGLISH LOCK Ω 22:08, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hobbs (1850). "Chapter V: On Tumbler, or Lever Locks". The Construction of Locks and Safes. - I presume you have a copy. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:02, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Per WP:UCRN it wouldn't matter what it was referred to in 1850. Articles should be named what they are generally referred to. A simple search on a hardware website shows how many results there are for 'lever lock' over 'lever tumbler lock'. Simple. Ω ENGLISH LOCK Ω 01:32, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The "tumbler" is the device within the lock which is aligned by the key, allowing the mechanism to operate. There are commonly lever tumblers, disc tumblers, pin tumblers and a few rare sorts. But the key to all of them is that they are "tumblers". This is the aspect they have in common between levers and pins. Even if the term isn't commonly used in everyday speech, this is still the right term, and the appropriate term for an encyclopedia to use. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:05, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You are going against Wikipedia's policy. I'll quote the relevant part of WP:UCRN. Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources. This article should be named Lever lock. Ω ENGLISH LOCK Ω 17:43, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just shouting louder doesn't make you right.

"Nowhere in the industry or anywhere else is the mechanism of a lever lock called a "tumbler"." Wrong.

"The name tumbler is used extensively in the US for pin tumblers." That doesn't mean it's the only type with tumblers.

"The lever lock does not have a tumbler." Wrong.

Yes, they are often called "lever locks" alone, without mentioning tumblers. They're also most commonly called "mortice locks", but then they're neither implicitly fitted in mortices, nor the only sort of lock which is fitted in mortices. Insurance companies frequently refer to them as "BS3621 locks" when (importantly) they're not the only form of lock meeting BS3621, nor do they all meet it. We should no more rename this as "lever lock" (alone) than we should rename it as "mortice lock". Andy Dingley (talk) 18:17, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Three lever lock

Is this particularly common? Lever tumbler locks are far more common in the UK than the US, so I have no direct experience with them. In searching, I've found more about 5-lever locks than any other number, and don't particularly see 3-lever locks as more common than 2, 6, or 7-lever locks. There's also no source for the claim that they're common. power~enwiki (π, ν) 01:35, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

They seem to be commonly used for bathrooms and bedrooms in the UK, at least in older houses. A source would be welcome, though. Zazpot (talk) 04:03, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

They're particularly common - they're not often labelled as such, because they're just the basic default mechanism for a mortice door lock. Two and six lever aren't used for doors, just for single-sided access (you might see very cheap and insecure 2 levers used for purely internal doors). Seven lever are pretty rare now because higher-end mechanisms tend to have moved away from levers (or at least, double-bitted), but they're still around for retrofitting old strongboxes with an existing single-sided keyhole. The most commonly seen labelled by its lever count would be 5 levers to BS3621. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:06, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, if unlabeled lever locks are generally 3-lever locks that would explain my search results and why it should be left in the article. More references would be great, but I'm otherwise planning to leave this article (except adding sources to the unsourced "Vulnerabilities" section) alone. power~enwiki (π, ν) 14:38, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[1]

Any adequately detailed locksmith catalogue should show this. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]