Talk:Lhasa de Sela

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Lhasa de Sela article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Lhasa de Sela has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
February 5, 2012	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on January 1, 2020.

Lhasa de Sela received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

Canada Low‑importance

	Canada portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Canada on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CanadaWikipedia:WikiProject CanadaTemplate:WikiProject CanadaCanada-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Roots music Low‑importance

	Music portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Roots music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to roots, folk and traditional folk music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Roots musicWikipedia:WikiProject Roots musicTemplate:WikiProject Roots musicRoots music articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians (assessed as Mid-importance).

Women

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles

Women in Music

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Categories[edit]

Lhasa de Sela has a Mexican father and an American Jewish mother. She was born in New York and grew up in the United States and Mexico. She lived and worked in Canada for a while, and ~~now lives and works~~ lived and worked in France for several years. As she performs in English, French and Spanish, she is really an International singer, but we don't have that category. But, she is not Mexican-Canadian or French-Jewish. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 03:19, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As she returned to Canada to record her second album, 'Canadian singer' does seem appropriate as a category, and I'll add it back. But I am still opposed to all these ethnic mixture categories. They strike me as wrong for her. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 12:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The category "Jewish American musicians" exists and is clearly appropriate so should be used. It is nonsense to have a category but not to apply it to every appropriatr article. Please move for the deletion of this category at WP:CfD if you think that it should not exist.--Brownlee 13:05, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cite a source that describes Lhasa (not just her mother) as "Jewish American". If you call her "Jewish American" without a source to cite, you are engaging in original research. I'll give you a day or day to find a source. If you don't, I will remove the category. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 13:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Half-Mexican American, half-Jewish American and all rainbow chile" [1]. And please, WP:CIVIL.--Brownlee 17:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That does not make her "Jewish-American", it makes her "half Jewish American", and I don't see a category for that. Moreover, if that counts, then why aren't you arguing to categorize her as Mexican-American, or Mexican-Jewish-American. More seriously, at different times Lhasa has been categorized here as Jewish-American, Mexican-American, Jewish Canadian, Mexican Jew, Mexican Canadian, Mexican-French and Jewish-French (she lived in France for a few years). I cleaned all of those out because it was ridiculous. I would point out that Lhasa left the U.S. at age eighteen, and has lived in Canada and Europe since then. All of her professional singing career has been based in Canada. It looks like the Canadians regard her as a Canadian singer, not an American (U.S.) singer. So, do we say that she's a Jewish-American Canadian singer?

Oh, and how have I violated WP:CIVIL? -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 21:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Most lists and categories recognise "half" people. Anyway, she was born and raised in America; how is she not American? I am not arguing for a long string of other categories, so that's a straw man argument. In my experience, people often say "please" and are less curt than you, but that's just my POV. Oh, and why delete the bio template? Surely we agree that this is a biography?

The matter of when we can place someone in an ethnic category is a matter of contention in Wikipedia. I'm one of the editors who contend that placing a person in an ethnic category without an explicit reliable source saying so is original research. My point was, if you are sure that being half Jewish-American makes Lhasa Jewish-American, why aren't you adding her to the Mexican-American category, too. Her father is Mexican-American, after all. And when did I delete the bio template? -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 22:16, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

She is undoubtedly American and undoubtedly Jewish, so hoiw is she nor Jewish-American? And why bring in these other categories? I am not suggesting that she is French. And please check this difference [2] and notice how the template disappeared.--Brownlee 12:17, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

P.S.: Is she Jewish-American or Lebanese-American? In Portugal she is known as Lebanese-American...So?

Her mother is listed as 'Jewish-American'. Her father was born in Mexico. I have not seen any mention of other elements in her ancestry. -- Donald Albury 23:00, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lhasa is my sister. Our mother is Jewish by heritage because one of our grandfathers was Russian Orthodox Jew. In our family, all the children (except our youngest brother whose father was Jewish American) consider ourselves Mexican-American, whether we were born in the US or Mexico, because our fathers were Mexican, and we all spent many years living in Mexico. What people in other countries consider her to be, does not change the fact that she is Mexican-American. There are seven siblings in all; six girls and one boy. Sdvega1 (talk) 20:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)--sdvega1[reply]

Thank you for your comments. Unfortunately, our policy is that we can only use material that has been published in reliable sources in Wikipedia. As it happens, the only published sources I have seen describe her mother as Jewish-American and her father as Mexican, but I don't recall any published source describing Lhasa herself as Mexican-American or Jewish-American. -- Donald Albury 14:06, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, your source is a brief review of The Living Road on the WYEP site. How is that a reliable source, in regards to the ethnic heritage of the artist's mother? What makes a reviewer at that radio station reliable enough to use as a biographical source?75.27.41.134 (talk) 00:15, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you will notice, I argued above against characterizing her ethnic background as anything more than having an American mother and a Mexican father, which is supported by her obituary in the New York Times. -- Donald Albury 11:40, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Because of the comments given above by Sdvega1, I looked and looked for confirmation that Lhasa's mother was Jewish, or of Jewish heritage. I found absolutely nothing, so I removed all the categories that said Lhasa was Jewish. Most sources characterize her as Mexican American. Binksternet (talk) 15:21, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rumor of death[edit]

There is rumor of her death floating around. I recommend watching this page closely for future edits, has it might get vandalized quickly and rumor has not been confirmed.--72.0.249.189 (talk) 05:28, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a rumor anymore, It's in the news (french article): http://www.cyberpresse.ca/arts/musique/201001/03/01-935831-la-chanteuse-lhasa-de-sela-est-decedee.php —Preceding unsigned comment added by Angedelamort (talk • contribs) 03:35, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I know it is not a rumor anymore, but at the time of writing my comment, it was... geeez.--24.226.233.230 (talk) 01:56, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

For anyone who would like to add additional information to the article and/or bolster the references for the information already included, the National Post ran an obituary today that contains quite a bit of detail. The link is here for those interested. --Jezebel'sPonyo ^shhh 14:26, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The French version of the article contains 15 references, in French and English. Bouchecl (talk) 22:39, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External links[edit]

The following links may be cited as references for article content, where appropriate, but are not suitable for inclusion directly in the article's external links section as they aren't the primary website of the article subject herself:

- Bearcat (talk) 20:00, 26 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your interpretation that only one external link to official web site is allowed is not correct and way too narrow, but these links do indeed not provide anything substantial. There must be more in-depth information about Lhasa. Cacycle (talk) 21:57, 26 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lhasa de Sela/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: GreatOrangePumpkin (talk · contribs) 11:24, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative rock, folk, world? Sounds interesting!

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

I have expanded the article a little bit more since you signed on as GA reviewer, and I hope this has not doubled your work. I am finished with this round of expansion and I will let the article take a break while you examine it. Thanks for choosing this article to review! Binksternet (talk) 10:08, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What about her personal life?--♫GoP♫_T ^C _N 13:05, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's a lot in the article about her upbringing. However, not much is known about her recent love life, if that's what you mean. Her last partner was Ryan Morey, a mastering engineer of Montreal who was previously a freelance photographer for various publications including National Geographic (per LinkedIn). Morey mastered the 2009 album Lhasa (per Allmusic). A few photographs of her that appear in obituaries are credited to Ryan Morey. How Lhasa met Morey, when they started living together, I don't know. It's not in any sources. Even less is known about previous boyfriends. Binksternet (talk) 14:37, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review! Binksternet (talk) 16:19, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Her name?[edit]

I was hoping the article would have some info about her first name, which is certainly rather unusual. Presumably she's named for the capital of Tibet, so I have to believe there's a story about how her parents chose that name for her. (I was quite surprised when I first learned that she didn't have a family connection to that part of the world.) Cgingold (talk) 09:45, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The answer is in this interview. She said: "My mother says I didn't actually have a name for five months. She simply couldn't come up with the right one. Then she was reading this book on Tibetan religion and came across the word 'Lhasa' and it just grabbed her and she gave it to me. And she thinks it is more than ever suited to me now, as it's a place at a high altitude, a rarefied, philosophical place; and I can be slightly detached and philosophical!" Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:19, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What a great quote! :)

Binksternet (talk) 16:38, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Confusing/[edit]

I'm sorry about this, but I just can't overlook this. When I reading the article I found this "interesting":

After the Lhasa album was recorded but before it was released, Lhasa was diagnosed with breast cancer. The album's closing song, "Anyone and Everyone", was described as prophetic by Jan Fairley of The Guardian – it was written from the viewpoint of one who knows death is near. Lhasa said that the song was about inner happiness and "feeling my feet in the earth, having a place in the world, of things taking care of themselves."[7]

I searched the source, but I couldn't find it anywhere there. The following statement("it was written from the viewpoint of one who knows death is near.") I find more true for her song I'm going In, while the rest is true for Anyone and everyone. If anybody would look into the source and find out where this was taken from... 188.230.173.103 (talk) 03:50, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You bring up a good point, that "Anyone and Everyone" is not the only or the most prophetic song. It is instead called "cathartic". The Guardian article says the following:

The album had been recorded before her cancer was diagnosed. When I asked whether its songs were prophetic, she described Rising as a crisis song, its images those of "somebody being caught up by a storm, pulled up into the air, like a wave rising up and down, and rising again. For over a year, I could not make head or tail of it and then it fell into place. The images are violent, even chaotic, but there is something simple and serene there too." Anyone and Everyone, the disc's final, cathartic song, expressed her happiness, she said, "feeling my feet in the earth, having a place in the world, of things taking care of themselves".

It seems that Lhasa felt the song "Rising" was perhaps the most prophetic... she didn't say so but when the question was presented to her that is the song she responded with. The source says nothing about "I'm Going In", even though that song's words describe death and (I think) rebirth. Binksternet (talk) 17:14, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Burial[edit]

What does this mean? "Burial Montreal is Notre-Dame-des-Neiges Cemetery." It doesn't seem to be a complete sentence. 98.176.248.32 (talk) 15:01, 15 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm removed those words, but confirmation of the fact that she was buried at that cemetery is given here. I've added those details to the text, and removed the reference made to her cremation - which was not contained in the source put forward. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:01, 15 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I re-added that she was cremated, and gave a correct citation (same web page as previous citation, but a more recent entry, see 2011-01-01). My source contains the following language

Lhasa left us on the 1st of January last year.
She was cremated, as she wished.
A ceremony for her took place at the Ukranian Federation in Montreal on January 9, 2010.
Another took place in Bourgogne, France, where her 3 sisters live and work as circus artists, on the 21st of June, 2010, the day of the summer solstice and of La Fête de la Musique in France.
A part of her ashes were dispersed in a little river which flows gently all the way to the Mediterranean Sea.
For those for whom it would be meaningful to have a place to go to honor her, there is now a stone reserved for Lhasa at the Cemetery Notre-Dame-Des-Neiges (which literally means "Our Lady of the Snows") in Montreal.
The cemetery plot is called poetically (!) Chandler 261.

David-Etienne Savoie and Lhasa's management team.

Because this says at least some of her ashes were dispersed elsewhere, and because the reference to the cemetery plot it makes it at best ambiguous as to whether any of Lhasa's ashes are buried there, I have edited the wiki page accordingly. I believe Lhasa's manager is a more trustworthy source on this point than the findagrave article written by an unrelated fellow in virginia.

Pigkeeper (talk) 12:27, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fine by me, thanks. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:58, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Con Toda Palabra Video[edit]

I would like to add a reference to the Con Toda Palabra video section.

The video was directed by Ralph Dfouni & Brigitte Henry

And here are some references

1. http://lhasadesela.com/lhasa_de_sela/videos.php?dif=you&lecredit=3&video=uGNk_zHy4Mg&lang=en 2. http://www.woodstockfilmfestival.com/festival2005/details.php?id=14048 3. http://www.ionfilmfest.com/07/selection_official.html 4. http://www.totoutard.com/videos/videos.php?idtrack=950&idartiste=79 5. http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=b5ab3749-4c63-4193-8f87-0b688b499b38&sponsor 6. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/list-of-juno-nominees/article1094822/?page=all

Would it be possible to add them plz?

Thanks, Mdfuni2 Mdfuni2 (talk) 05:07, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I added the fact that the video did not win a Juno in 2006 but it won at ION International Film Festival in 2007. Binksternet (talk) 18:34, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Lhasa de Sela. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101019185817/http://cria.ca/gold/0504_g.php to http://www.cria.ca/gold/0504_g.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:14, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Lhasa de Sela. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160205041228/http://lhasadesela.com/medias/pdf/sc00893c87.pdf to http://lhasadesela.com/medias/pdf/sc00893c87.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:04, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Lhasa de Sela. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:10, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Lhasa de Sela. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:02, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

21 months?[edit]

It says that Lhasa was diagnosed with cancer in 2009, and after 21 months of therapy she died on January 1st 2010. This is an impossible equation. It would have been max 6-8 months of therapy. Belindawiki (talk) 06:59, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the note. The published obituaries said 21 months but you were right about the impossible dates. She was certainly diagnosed in 2008, not 2009. Binksternet (talk) 09:36, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]