Talk:Lionel Dorling

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Notability[edit]

Wikipedia:Notability (people) states:- The person has received a notable award or honor, or has been often nominated for them. The subject of this bio has the CB, CMG, DSO. I have removed the notability tag Paste (talk) 12:28, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have re-added the tag as I do not believe this makes the subject highly notable. Although no small feat and I do not intend to devalue this man, his achievements or the awards, the fact is that hundreds of soldiers in the British Empire, especially during the First World War, held simular and/or the same decorations. If we were to create an article on every British Army colonel ever there would be thousands of articles, even if it was limited to one's such as Dorling there would still be a very substantial number. On top of that, the article appears to have been created by a relative, which leads me to believe it is more of a "tribute" article. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 23:24, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is a distinct lack of any significant result for Dorling via a Google search, other than a listing in the National Portrait Gallery for two photographic negatives. I will search through a more extensive catalogue tomorrow. PalawanOz (talk) 11:14, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think the award of both the order of the Bath and particularly the order of St Michael and St George was not that common and I would think be enought to establish notability. MilborneOne (talk) 12:23, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Military history wikiproject interpretation of that notability guidline only mentions holding the highest available honour as conferring "automatic" notability (i.e. VC/GC for British officers). Given the amount of decorations awarded over the course of WWI, as others have stated, I don't think this particular combo is particularly notable. Colonels are similarly not held to be inherently notable. I'm sorry I jsut don't think he quite cuts it for a Wikipedia article. David Underdown (talk) 13:15, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I had a quick check of Category:Knights Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath, which has 697 people listed. In the "A's", there are 41 people. Of those 41, 12 (29%) also have an appointment in the Order of St Michael and St George. Now, I acknowledge that the GCB was often awarded to royalty (and hence they also received a lot of other Orders)... so, looking at the Category:Companions of the Order of the Bath, again, of the 33 "A's" listed out of a total of 643, 6 (18%) of them also had an appointment to the Order of St Michael and St George. I might add that many of them had appointments to higher Orders (of the Garter and Thistle in particular), as well as a sprinkling of DSOs. Those 6 individuals were notable for reasons other than those awards:

I think this tends to rule out a CB/CMG/DSO combination as particularly notable. PalawanOz (talk) 13:24, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Paste and I (Abraham, B.S.) have continued our initial discussion some what on our own talk pages, and I will replicate what was said below:

I have no desire to get into an edit war with you but I believe that you are fundamentally wrong on this one, the combination of a CB, CMG and a DSO is by no means given to hundreds as you state. The DSO is an award for bravery as I am sure you are aware whereas the CB holder must be of the rank of Lieutenant Commander, Major or Squadron Leader, and in addition must have been mentioned in despatches for distinction in a command position in a combat situation. The CMG is used to honour individuals who have rendered important services in relation to Commonwealth or foreign nations. People are appointed to the Order rather than awarded it. I entirely agree that we cannot have an article on every Colonel but this individual is very different.Paste (talk) 09:25, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I, too, have no particular desire to engage in an edit war and I also possess a significant knowledge on the British honours system. However, I assure you many such combinations of awards were granted to military personnel who had distinguished themselves, particularly during the First World War. Aside from his awards, Dorling does not appear to be highly notable and, as I stated on the talk page, appears to have been written as a tribute from a relative. I would also find it as a surprise if any other article linked to this one. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 10:29, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It would seem that you feel rather more strongly about this than I do, we'll leave it with you. Regards Paste (talk) 11:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's not that I feel strongly about it, it's just that I do not think Dorling is notable enough to warrant an article on Wikipedia. I'll leave the notability tag up for a while longer and see if anyone is able to establish if he is notable enough for Wikipedia, if not, I will consider deletion. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 11:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No vested interest either way I jut came here to improve the medal references but just to add that the DSO was not just given out for attendance particlarly when he was just a Major at the time of the Boer War. But as this is a bit subjective perhaps further discussion whould be in a deletion request. MilborneOne (talk) 23:51, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion[edit]

I got in too late to comment on the AfD... but I would have said Delete due to lack of notability. PalawanOz (talk) 20:29, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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