Talk:List of Democratic Socialists of America public officeholders

List ordering

What is the standard being applied for listing this individuals? Alphabetical by last name or by year of first office? I see both being employed and also random additions. JesseRafe (talk) 16:39, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Bump. Anyone have an objection to first organizing by year of office, and then by state, and then by last name? JesseRafe (talk) 14:16, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

DSA members who won elections with other parties

The FEC Form 2's for both Rashida Tlaib and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez list their party affiliation as Democratic Party. Since these are partisan seats won on Democratic Party tickets, should they be listed on this page? Wjlafrance (talk) 23:30, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

DSA is not a party. O3000 (talk) 23:31, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Ron Dellums, John Conyers and Major Owens were all DSA members elected to Congress as Democrats. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:39, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Danny K. Davis =

I noticed that Danny K. Davis (US Representative from Illinois, 7th district), who had previously been on this list is no longer on it. It seems well-established that he is a DSA member – he is listed as such on Danny K. Davis, with several sources supporting this assertion (). Is there a precise definition of "DSA member" that should be used for membership on this list? --2600:1700:975C:430:15E3:995A:B2AC:FF5 (talk) 21:34, 17 July 2020 [(UTC)

References

Added back. Didn't bother to find the edit that removed him (Ctrl+F on history found no "Davis", so perhaps done without edit summary). If I had to guess a good faith reason for his removal was he might not be a current member (which is not a requirement of my understanding of the tense used in the article), or the ref in the prior version was poor, which I didn't bother clicking on because looked like inflammatory nonsense. Replaced with the two refs from his page and above, note to IP: Do not confuse endorsement with membership for trying to establish any other entrants. Thanks for bring it up! JesseRafe (talk) 12:23, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

I'd like to challenge his inclusion here or at least suggest we should try to put an end date on his DSA affiliation. I'm not able to find any records indicating when we can definitively say that the split between Davis and the DSA occurred, but I believe DSA only endorsed his challenger Anthony Clark in the 2018 and 2020 races. Paradoxsociety 22:54, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

It does appear that Davis is no longer an active member, though he was in the past. Maybe we should somehow distinguish current vs past members on this page? It may be hard to get concrete membership date ranges, though. --BadgerPriest (talk) 00:28, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

@JesseRafe, Paradoxsociety, and BadgerPriest: Per "DSA specialty: Toppling incumbents" from the DSA magazine Democratic Left, Danny K. Davis is not listed under "DSA Members Who Won Election to Public Office Nov. 3rd" (exact title from printed version). While it's possible that DSA is not aware that a Congressperson is a member of its organization, I think this more likely indicates Davis is not currently a dues-paying DSA member. Davis should not be removed entirely because sources show he was once a member, but maybe he should be listed under "Former" or differentiated with a note/color-coding of current vs former DSA members. --Tvc 15 (talk) 02:09, 5 January 2021 (UTC) @Cullen328: --Tvc 15 (talk) 02:13, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Endorsement ≠ Membership

Several sources in this article (especially in the sections for state/municipal legislators) cite articles that only contain endorsements from local DSA chapters and do not mention whether or not the individual is a member of the organization. The organization endorsed Sanders for president in both 2016 and 2020 despite there being no documented evidence of his membership. Is there a reason to believe that the organization only endorses members? --SeizeDaMeanz420 (talk) 11:15, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

No, endorsement and membership are not the same thing. Literally anyone with a few dollars can be a member.--User:Namiba 12:27, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Not sure about DSA endorsement criteria, but this list should include DSA members rather than any holder of public office endorsed/supported by DSA.--Tvc 15 (talk) 00:37, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Here are the National DSA endorsement criteria. Local chapters can set their own. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:46, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Many of the editors trying to say politicians endorsed by the DSA are actually members of the DSA are clearly biased. Unless a reliable source states the elected official or candidate is a member of the DSA, then that particular person should not be identified as being a member. I think an examination of every official identified as a DSA member is needed. Thriley (talk) 17:12, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Too many minor, non-notable entities

This list is already past being in danger of becoming, and is firmly now wp:listcruft. I am going to make the the bold edit of removing some of these trivial local and state offices, that are not elected by the public at large. E.g. State committee of the Dems. There are 10,000s of those. Those people are not notable for that position and that position will never, ipso facto, make any notable contribution noteworthy enough to pass NLIST. In NYS there are many hundreds of state committee people (district leaders) and many thousands of county committeemembers, that are "elected" but don't actually hold "office". Same as other state's (e.g. Nevada's) partisan governing body. That's not elected office. There's no legislative or executive function, just a deliberative body for a volunteer/advocacy organization. It's like if the state league of conservation voters chose their executive committee, we wouldn't add those names if they were DSA members. It makes the article look bad giving all of this ticky-tack positions the same space as a member of Congress or a State leg or a City Council. If I had my druthers, I'd remove all these water commissioners and school board people too. Who cares? They're unlikely to be notable, but I'm not familiar with how these positions are "elected" or function without spending more time. Also, I am going to be removing all of those without a source explicitly declaring them to be members. Endorsements that don't say "XYZ Chapter of DSA endorses our member Joe Schmoe" "or we congratule member on their victory" are just endorsements, not indicative of membership. JesseRafe (talk) 13:12, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Carlina Rivera

Rivera ran as DSA in 2017, won, and the references for her being on the current chart reflect this. Her most recent campaign this year was wiped clean of any kind of DSA affiliation. Is she still DSA?--Wikitikitengo2 (talk) 03:08, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

The above blocked user was the one who removed the DSA reference on Rivera's own page. If you're trying to defend yourself as not being a sock, make your contradictory edits with your different accounts, don't gainsay yourself as the same user! Oy. Anyway, yes, we don't have a source that she is, on November 5, 2021, an active DSA member. Just as we don't for any of these named individuals beyond their contemporaneous status at election. JesseRafe (talk) 13:11, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Continued addition of poorly sourced members

Ikpode678, I've mentioned this poor sourcing several times already. You must stop doing it. Take your last edit, the edit summary is 100% false - we can't use primary sources like twitter in the first place but how is Osse's membership in 2020 for an election in 2021 for office in 2022 proof of "current"? That's textbook OR and SYNTH. Lander actually specifically states he's not a member. It goes on and on. You seem to be interested in DSA (almost exclusively) and perhaps want to make them look good by aggrandizing their membership numbers among electeds. But bloating this article with poorly cited and poorly sourced errata does not achieve that aim and actually makes DSA look like it's grasping at straws for tenuous relevance. We need strong third party news sources that specifically tie them to membership in the organization. Of the actual DSA members who hold real state, local, and federal office, membership is not hard to come by. Please discuss your broad changes on the talk page or read up on the welcome links on your user talk. JesseRafe (talk) 14:02, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

In my opinion, we should clearly only use a primary source like a Tweet from a DSA account if it explicitly calls them a member, not just an endorsee. A tweet by DSA saying that they are a member is a credible source that they are a memebr (at least at the time of the Tweet). However, a tweet just saying that they are endorsed definitely does not confirm that they are a member; for example, Bernie Sanders was endorsed by DSA (and many of its chapters) in both of his presidential runs, but to my knowledge he has has never been a DSA member.

I also would like to express my agreement that we need to do a better job on making sure that we are using credible sources. And we also need to address link rot. e.g. "Support DSA Delegates at the DNC" no longer works.ROADKILL (talk) 05:44, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Western Pensylvania State Representatives who are no longer DSA memebers

Summer Lee is no longer a DSA member. In their 2022 elections the Pittsburgh DSA has not endorsed Lee or Sara Inamarato.

References

OK, that would be a source to move Summer Lee from current to former if you had a date her membership ended, but not to delete her. Endorsement is irrelevant to membership, in both directions, as stated again and again in this talk page and years of edit summaries. Further, if Inamarato is no longer a member of DSA, she still was, and as stated, we do not do revisionist history here and delete formerly factual information when we have two clearly labeled tables for "current" and "former" members. JesseRafe (talk) 17:17, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Worth pointing at that this article only seems to mention that she left the Pittsburgh chapter. She could still very well be a member of the national organization "at-large". Maybe this is something we can add as a note. Also, as mentioned elsewhere on this page, endorsements are not necessarily indicative of membership. You have to apply for an endorsement from the organization both on the local and national level and many elected officials feel that the process isn't worth their time once elected. As such, many elected officials who are members of DSA do not end up getting formally endorsed for re-election. For this election cycle, Tlaib is the only US Rep. on this page who has been endorsed for re-election by the national organization. This doesn't mean that Ocasio-Cortez, Bush, and Bowman are no longer members, they just never pursued an endorsement this election cycle. --ArticleEditorFriend (talk) 06:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I agree it's a sloppy connection that she is not a member of DSA and could easily be interpreted that she just left the chapter. And, yes, the first couple of reverts were because the above user simply relied on lack of endorsement, the counterpositive of the oft-ocurring addition of folks who were merely endorsed but without proof of membership.

Also, AEF, I'm a little hesitant about adding Jumaane in the Council. He's long held he has Dem-Soc values and aligned with a few DSA campaigns and pols (like Lander in both instances) but this is the first I've ever heard of him stating DSA membership, and it's quite temporarily removed from his elected membership to the Council. JesseRafe (talk) 13:07, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

I believe Williams only formally joined the DSA after becoming Public Advocate. As far as sources go, the only other decent one that I can find is another NYT article. Still, it's a reputable source and adding multiple articles from the same publication seems redundant, so I'll keep it as is for the time being. He was affiliated with and worked with the organization beforehand, but I believe he only formally joined after his tenure on city council was over. Still, this is supposed to be a complete list. I believe Tlaib's time in the state legislature predates her formally joining the organization, but its still included here (albeit improperly sourced). This article is supposed to be a list of offices held by DSA members, not a list of offices held by people during their time in the DSA. --ArticleEditorFriend (talk) 13:22, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Adding State Senator-elect Zaynab Mohamed under State Officials | Upper houses

I would like to add State Senator-elect Zaynab Mohamed under State Officials | Upper houses. I am currently blocked and need an edit request approved to get unblocked.

KARE 11, a television station licensed to Minneapolis and serving the Twin Cities area as an affiliate of NBC, among others, reported State Senator-elect's election on November 9, 2022.

There are at least three sources confirming State Senator-elect Zaynab Mohamed's membership in the organization.

1.) The organization itself, Twin Cities DSA, specifies that State Senator-elect Zaynab Mohamed is a member below her name on their 2022 Endorsements page, where one can see that they distinguish between four candidates who are members and two candidates that have received an endorsement but are not members. The organizational also specified membership below her name on their 2022 First-Round Endorsements page.

2.) Another is the community newspaper Southside Pride, which covered the story on November 14, 2022. In the third section, the author writes "Zaynab Mohamed, DSA member, for state Senate District 63" in a list of Twin Cities DSA candidates who won their elections.

3.) A third that states DSA membership explicitly is the Student Newspaper of Lawrence University. In the sixth paragraph, the author writes "Zaynab Mohamed won an open seat, becoming the third DSA member in the Senate."

Additionally, in the following article, the author writes in the 13th paragraph that "elected officials do have the chance to advance bills at the state level, particularly in Minnesota, where five DSA members will serve in the state House and Senate," which refers to the four already on this list (Omar Fateh, Jen McEwen, Aisha Gomez, and Athena Hollins) + Zaynab Mohamed. Similarly, in the following article, the author writes in the second and fourth sections that "[a]ll six of the candidates endorsed by Twin Cities Democratic Socialists of America — including four state lawmakers — won their races" and that "[t]he small but growing cohort of DSA members holding office in Minnesota could push for a wider embrace of the movement's progressive politics and policies." These two articles specify membership rather than merely endorsement as well as the number of elected officials in the group, which corresponds both to the names in this list (and their sources) as well as to those mentioned on the organization's two aforementioned pages.

UnPeuPar2 (talk) 22:49, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

References

UnPeuPar2 (talk) 08:50, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

@UnPeuPar2  Done Cheers. Duke Gilmore (talk) 14:08, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

State Officials List

The list should be organized by state rather than having all the states mixed together in order to make it easier to see how many officials each state has and who they are by state. 2603:7080:400:7826:ADFC:DAB8:A451:F143 (talk) 21:00, 21 July 2023 (UTC)