Talk:List of French generals of the Peninsular War

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the List of French generals of the Peninsular War article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Lists

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

France Low‑importance

	France portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: European / French / Napoleonic era

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion not met

Associated task forces:
/
	European military history task force
	French military history task force
	Napoleonic era task force (c. 1792 – 1815)

Doubt[edit]

I've hidden the Jean Baptiste, baron Franceschi pending confirmation that he is who we say he is (please see his talk page). --Technopat (talk) 19:02, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Have re-incorporated the chap, but the glaring discrepancies in his biography still need sorting out. --Technopat (talk) 11:17, 29 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

'Nother doubt (plural form)[edit]

I've been having this nagging doubt ever since I created this list as to whether it might be better to move this to List of French generals officer (Peninsular War), i.e., with the plural formed on generals rather than officers, and would greatly appreciate some feedback (as in consensus) on this. Thanks. --Technopat (talk) 18:24, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't profess to be an oracle (or expert) on the matter, (and I don't have references to support my POV), but I most certainly have an opinion on the topic!

In my (no doubt biased) opinion, there are (at least) three options.

My personal (biased) preference is List of French Generals (Peninsular War);

(I expect there is probably universal opposition to this.) Which reminds me of a joke: "Isn't it strange that Miss Universe is always a humanoid?"

Hence, my second preference is List of French generals (Peninsular War). Interesting! That link already exists.
My third preference is List of French general officers (Peninsular War).

I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable about stating this, but quite simply, List of French generals officer (Peninsular War) does NOT appear anywhere on my personal list of alternatives.

I hope you find my response useful/helpful! Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:39, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sigh! Should have known better than to ask for feedback, opinions and/or consensus at Wikipedia :) Taking it from the bottom, am quite happy with your rationale for your third point, 'cos it's basically the same as mine. I just thought I'd get consensus on it so as to be able to rule it out.

The reason I opted out of your second preference (actually my original, first choice) was that general officer seemed a neater catch-all for including generals and marshals (not actually a rank). Since then, however, I have also included a mere colonel (with a note giving my rationale), so we might now need an ever wider-ranging catch-all. But I'm easy on this, so if anyone can be bothered to be bold and move the page to whatever looks more convincing, fine by me. Cheers! --Technopat (talk) 12:14, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mmmmm. (That'll teach ya!)

"List of French general officers (Peninsular War)" is as good/bad as most of the alternatives, and better than most.

I expect that the status quo is "good enough", and not likely to be controversial. (e.g. Even though it's my 3rd preference, it's on my list of acceptable alternatives, and I don't find it sufficiently offensive to change it - particularly given that my "realistic" (second) preference already exists as a redirect to the status quo, and I have zero expectation of any support for my first preference. (In fact, I think I'll "cheat" and make my first preference into a redirect to the status quo!)

In brief summary, in my (no doubt biased) opinion, I think you have consensus for the status quo. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:33, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Stuff it! If I can justify making List of French Generals (Peninsular War) into a redirect, it's a tiny step to do the same for List of French generals officer (Peninsular War)! Pdfpdf (talk) 12:46, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

I have some suspicious about the accuracy of this article. Marshal Kellermann never fought in the peninsula, who did it was his son and the claim that half of napoleon forces were fighting there just don't make sense because just in the Russian invasion he used 600,000 men. Mimimito (talk) 02:31, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Have sourced Kellerman (Jensen, Nathan D. "General François-Etienne Kellerman." Consulted 23 March 2014.). Will check out the other issue later, but as it lasted 1807–1814 it seems likely. --Technopat (talk) 07:23, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

One of the three links to Kellerman, the first, in fact, took the reader to the article on the father (the others were OK). This has now been corrected. Thanks for pointing it out. --Technopat (talk) 08:44, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the number of troops, Meredith Hindley states the following: "two hundred and seventy thousand men—three-fifths of the empire’s total military strength". --Technopat (talk) 08:58, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Technopat, and thx for the answer. The problem with the info is that Marshal Kellerman never fought in the Peninsular War and his son was never a marshal, so either way doesn't made sense. About the numbers I think this is a mathematical problem. If Napoleon invaded Russia with something between 600,000 and 700,000 men and there were plenty of troops as garrisons around the empire; the 270,000 fighting in Spain couldn't be more than half of Napoleon's forces. I know the source said that but I think the author whished to overemphasized the peninsular war a little bit. Mimimito (talk) 18:45, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings again. I'll look into the Kellerman thing again later. As for the number of troops, I reckon that Hindley refers to the total number of troops throughout the five/six-year campaign (1807-1814) on the peninsula, rather than at any one time, whereas the figures for the Grande Armée at the start of the Russian campaign, in June 1812, refers to that specific date (I've read figures ranging from 500,000 to 700,000). Be that as it may, as Wikipedia is not interested in the Truth, whatever that may be, but in references from reliable sources, if you wish to nuance it, something along the lines of, "troops numbered, according to some sources, xxxx, while others put the figure nearer zzzz", together with your references, I certainly have no objections. The more references and versions provided, the better. Regards, --Technopat (talk) 23:31, 23 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why does this article (laughably) cite Bussaco as a "victory" for Massena when the article on Bussaco goes with the consensus and describes it as a defeat?90.192.169.33 (talk) 20:49, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of Portuguese general officers (Peninsular War) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 00:37, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]