Talk:List of Halo characters/Archive 2

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Proposing Merge: Captain Jacob Keyes

No reason for Keyes to have his own article; in two paragraphs he can be summarized in this article. I thinks we should also put down a relative benchmark for Halo characters; appearances in multiple video games merits their own article. Other than that, they all go here. David Fuchs (talk) 18:38, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

This seems entirely reasonable. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that the only characters in the series that warrant their own articles are the Arbiter, Cortana, and the Master Chief. Take Sgt. Johnson, for example. He has a notable appearance in Halo 3, but he is almost not there in the first two games. Indeed, the only reason he survived the events in the first game was a preposterously stupid and laughably concocted medical condition invented due to fan response to the character. A shame, really. They could've even just pretended that it was his twin, rather than the explanation they gave.Michael.A.Anthony 03:15, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I do not agree to this at all. I believe that wikipedia is meant to be the "ultimate" source of knowledge. I would go so far to say I think enough can be said about each character to make every character have there own page. As far as the main characters. Captain keys, mr johnson, cortana, master chief, and arbiter are the main characters. I personally think ATLEAST the main characters need to be. I will admin maybe captain keyes isn't a main character (as he's not present in the later games for obvious reasons), but still. He added a lot of "ooomph" into the first game, and gave it more story (in atleast 2 different scenes).Businessman332211 15:41, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

What you think about Wikipedia does not change what it is and what it is not. David Fuchs (talk) 16:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I think I am fully aware of what wikipedia is and is not. I am fully aware of what it's about and what it's not suppose to be. There is nothing in there that says it shouldn't have a character profile like the others did. Can you please specify what wikipedia is not that might possibly decide that it would be against what it is not. I simply said he should have his own profile, that is not "against" wikipedia. businessman332211 13:51, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Failed Good Article nomination

I have reviewed this article, and feel that it does not meet the criteria for good articles on the following grounds:

  1. The vast majority of information comes from an in-universe perspective, in violation of WP:FICT.
  2. Although the article is not titled as a list, it still retains the basic organizational structure of a list - admitted to in its first sentence. There is little attempt to give an overview of the subject, instead, essentially, serving as a series of short mini-articles. This is not suitable for a good article - more breadth of focus is required, instead of a multitude of specificities.
  3. The excess of fair use images is in violation of our image policies.
  4. The individual profiles lack context - this article seems to not make any sense to someone who doesn't already know a fair deal about Halo. Compare to an article like Spoo, which is on an extremely specific fictional topic, but remains accessible to a non-expert reader.

Good luck in revising the article, and I look forward to reading it again. Phil Sandifer 17:29, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Sigh... Pawel Czernek

Ok. Let's get some things straight. He appears in a non-canon advertisement, nothing more. This is the equivalent of adding back in Sgt. Stacker. The goal of this page is not to add in every minor character. David Fuchs (talk) 23:34, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Why is Stacker not in this article, anyway? He was on the first Halo, at Earth, and even commanded the ground forces during the attack on the Ark! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.46.2.49 (talk) 20:33, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I think every character (including minor ones) should be included here. Thus the point of wikipedia. Businessman332211 15:40, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I think since SGT. Stacker has appereaded in every game so he should be added. --69.124.58.112 (talk) 23:14, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Including every minor character would make the article enormous, bloated, and would be little more than fancruft. See WP:Summary style and WP:Article size Peptuck (talk) 23:45, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

The point of Wikipedia is not including every minor or non-notable fiction character, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Having a appearance in every game doesn't warrant the character a inclusion on this list, only his significance to the plot of the series does. - Caribbean~H.Q. 23:50, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Offensive Bias

The old entry for Offensive Bias is, to be blunt, misleading. It makes him seem rather cursory, when he is, in fact, for all purposes and intents, the commander and pilot of every vessel. I feel my repurposing of the section, while admittedly motivated by a desire to sex him up a bit, much better reflects the character. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.235.231.138 (talk) 04:42, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

The original version was cursory because he is a cursory character, who is mentioned in only a couple of terminal entries and only has one entry where he is really of note, and that is only accessible on Legendary difficulty. Peptuck 05:18, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
What I meant is cursory [to the series of events he details], when he is not. What I've written is no different in tone and spirit, but is substantially more precise. The previous entry was vague and misleading. If you don't like the idea of an entry for Offensive Bias of that nature, then by all means remove it, but my modification is unquestionably a substantial improvement. 24.235.231.138 03:04, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

List

After reviewing the article I believe we should recategorize to "List" class, this will have a greater chance of passing FLC than GAC because of its format, and taking the past review under consideration this is probably the biggest obstacle preventing the promotion of it, I have no concerns with the amount of images (9 images for 82 kb) and any prose problem can be dealt with copyediting. - Caribbean~H.Q. 04:49, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

It really is a list, but Characters in the Halo series is still better than List of Chacters in Halo. Looking at it as a list, all we really need are sources for Halo 3, and some trimming for some characters (as well as proper tense). David Fuchs (talk) 16:49, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I started to edit it and found quite a few tense problems and typoes. Unfortunately, my computer decided to tell me it hates me and crash. So I'll comb over the article when I finish some errands. Sound good? Master of Puppets Care to share? 17:30, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good. I've been trying to fix all the post-Halo 3 info so it agrees with the present tense as prescribed by WP:FICT, but I think I've spent too long working on it, it needs fresher eyes. David Fuchs (talk) 19:04, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I converted the tenses used in the paragraphs of dead characters to past, except for stuff from the games; for example, if the paragraph says how "Foehammer is very useful, as she will give the protagonist warthogs and ammo", that stays the same. However, if it is describing what happened in the Halo mythos, that gets changed to past tense. I'll do more when I get back from my friend's birthday party. Master of Puppets Care to share? 22:21, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Ah, so past tenses aren't appropriate. Should I just try to cut down on unnecessary text in the list, then? Master of Puppets Care to share? 02:18, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Failed Good article nomination again

The previous concerns do not seem to me to be addressed - this is still essentially a list, it still provides little out-of-universe context. Phil Sandifer 18:19, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

List rename

Since the page seems to function better as a list, as noted on the FLC page we should probably change the name. I'm proposing List of Halo characters as it's a bit shorter. David Fuchs (talk) 00:56, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Thumbs up from me. Peptuck 04:46, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Go ahead. There's no problem with it. James086Talk | Email 06:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Tartarus

Tartarus first appears in "Contact Harvest" not "First Strike" (He is Maccabeus' nephew) I know FS was published first but CH procedes it chronologically, I think it should be changed. 217.33.134.118 (talk) 13:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Real-world chronology should take precedence, because we should be doing more than re-telling fiction from the perspective of the fictional universe. — TKD::Talk 14:55, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

To do

I've added in a merchandise section, to help balance out in/out of universe info, and I've cut most in-universe summaries of characters down to a paragraph for each character. The characters with their own articles need to be better summarised here, but that's a quick couple of edits. I guess maybe what we should do now is creat a common reception section for some general characters? Or should we just leave them in their own sections? David Fuchs (talk) 16:36, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Checking in

David asked me to check in on this article and say how I thought it was coming along, and I have to say, I think it's doing great - obviously, more out-of-universe material is always good - information about the design, cultural reception, any of that is, to my mind, the real gold of articles like this. And while some of the biggest characters are really starting to have good sections like this, the minor ones still need it where possible - with books like Art of Halo and interviews I would expect that most of the characters have at least some production information about them available. But the improvement that has gone on in this article since I first saw it up for good article is tremendous, and y'all deserve a big round of applause. Phil Sandifer (talk) 03:19, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

You mean out-of-universe? James086Talk | Email 03:46, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes. Sorry. Long day. Phil Sandifer (talk) 04:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
It's ok, it struck me as a bit odd though. ;) James086Talk | Email 04:27, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Character overload

Is it just me, or are way too many characters bing added lately? Deep Winter, Endless Summer, Solipsil, etc? These are minor characters in the same vein as Dubbo and Banks. Peptuck (talk) 07:13, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Aye. I've been removing them as they appear. David Fuchs (talk) 03:25, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

GA summary

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Excellent and informative article

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    Extremely well written. I was easily able to follow the article even though I do not know very much about Halo.
    B. MoS compliance:
    Again, the quality of the prose is phenomenal.
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    Well referenced to reliable websites
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    No obvious problems with inline citations.
    C. No original research:
    Almost every sentence that is possibly challengable is cited.
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    If anything, this article is almost too comprehensive.
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
    It may be nice to have more images. Many of the characters already have their own articles, so perhaps some of the images in those articles could be added to this one to make it more visually appealing.
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    This is a supremely well-written article. It should immediately be nominated for FA. I would nominate it myself, but I do not want to cut in front of the article's contributer(s).

J.delanoygabsadds 00:54, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey, there has been some debate lately over what ammount of images should be included in this kind of article, for now the concensus seems to be that group images are better than individual ones. - Caribbean~H.Q. 01:06, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Article rehaul - redefine the criteria

A suggestion to make the scope of this list definite, and deal with people who want to add every character under the sun: the character must have appeared in more than one work of Halo, i.e. Captain Keyes stays (The Flood and Combat Evolved) but Danforth Whitcomb goes (only First Strike, unless you wanted to count his minor cameo in FoR?) This would remove the following characters:

  • Danforth Whitcomb
  • Antonio Silva
  • Melissa McKay
  • Corporal Locklear
  • Déjà
  • Wellsley
  • Araqiel
  • Sesa 'Refumee
  • Zuka 'Zamamee
  • Voro 'Mantakree
  • Yayap
  • Didact
  • 2401 PT
  • The Librarian

What this would look like is here. Some other changes which would follow is removing the SPARTAN section, leaving Kurt as his own character, and moving the relevant info to the SPARTAN Project article. Note that some caveats might be in order: the character should stay if they are the subject of their sole work, for example. Either way, my intention is not to do this any time soon. For these characters to be removed, the info needs a place to go, and that means the novel articles- First Strike, The Fall of Reach, Ghosts of Onyx, The Flood, would all need to have this information incorporated into the articles, which means the articles would have to be improved. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 20:26, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Not too certain about this criteria myself. It doesn't really make much sense, as characters that only appear in one work can still end up being important. It would be very odd if we cut out, say, Pentient Tangent, Whitcomb, 'Refumee, etc. Some of these characters are plot-important, but I honestly can't come up with a better criteria for choosing who goes in this article. I would agree with cutitng out some of the relatively minor characters - McKay, Locklear (possibly - he had real plot relevance in his story) Deja, Wellsley, maybe 'Mantakree. Others I would be leery about axing, especially any of the Forerunner characters. Peptuck (talk) 20:37, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Not so sure removing 2401 Penitent Tangent is such a good idea, because while he only gets one appearance his role in the story is important enough to warrant note. Perhaps the criteria should be "Must have appeared in 2 official Halo works, or in 1 Halo game". I'd say the games have a higher "canon value" than the other works on the grounds that they form the core of the series and will be the Halo works with the highest public profile. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PhennPhawcks (talk • contribs) 23:02, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Even that would be problematic because it would allow minor characters from the games in. I think we should just decide on a case by case basis whether a character is or isn't included. Obviously we don't need to discuss the major ones and this will be a tedious process but if we discuss each one individually then there won't be any loopholes in criteria. I think the number of characters included is good as it currently stands. James086Talk | Email 01:07, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
To tell the truth, I really am not liking how the article looks now. I mean, its cut out the Heretic Leader, Didact, the Librarian, Whitcomb, McKay, Silva, PT....these were all fairly important characters within their own works, and I think its just taking the brevity policy too far, IMHO. I vote for a revert back; its a good idea, but I think it just cuts out too much relevant information. Peptuck (talk) 01:46, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm in agreement with Peptuck and the only compromise I could think of is this: Adding back Sesa Refumee, Voro MantaKree, 2401 Pentinent Tangent and the unseen characters since they were mentioned in the Halo 3 Marathon terminals and the UNSC human characters. The A.I.s however were only mentioned for a dozen pages total in their respective novels and rarely warranted as much notability as Cortana did. Zuka Zamanee and Yayap however are a different matter and really should stay out. All the two characters did was serve as a giant sub-plot which was mostly filler other than attempting to find and kill the Master Chief but failing miserably. Dibol (talk) 02:58, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Since Cortana and Kurt are the only AI/Spartans left, I'm just going to merge the Spartan info into the main article and remove the subcats. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 11:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I've used this page in the past to obtain a list of AIs in the Halo universe, as one of my machine has its storage volumes named after UNSC AIs. I noticed that, compared to the last time I visited, that it has been cut down immensely. I've no problem with the cutting out of superfluous information, but this is exactly the sort of change that takes Wikipedia's comprehensive supply of information and keeps it down under some artificial restrain impose by revision for revision's sake. Absolutely pointless. Druadan (talk) 23:14, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Having a massive list of every single itty bitty minor AI that appears in the Halo series would be massive, congested, and unwieldly. If you really need the detailed information, there's the dedicated Halo wikia. Peptuck (talk) 03:56, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

The Prophets

In the article it says that there are only 3 shown in Halo 2, Truth, Mercy, and Regret. However, at the soon-to-be Arbiter's hearing, the audience is a multitude of Prophets, one of which is shown to say "Nay, it is heresy!" Just wondering if I should change the article about that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iner22 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Nicole (Dead or Alive)

Should she have a section in this article? Slightly tangental I know, but she's in continuity as far as I'm aware and is therefore a character of Halo... rst20xx (talk) 16:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

She doesn't appear at all in any Halo games, and no reference is made to her in any Halo material outside of DOA. Peptuck (talk) 17:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
But that doesn't stop her from being an in-continuity character of the Halo Universe... rst20xx (talk) 12:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Well I went ahead and added her - rst20xx (talk) 12:48, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Librarian and Didact

I was wondering if we should bring these two back into the article? They seemed pretty important due to the background they provided as to the war with the Flood. Also, just as an aside, why was Foehammer removed? I know Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, but she did seem like a fairly important character in Halo: CE Peptuck (talk) 21:48, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Eh, I don't particularly remember removing foehammer, but my rationale is that since didact and the librarian along with foehammer are not mentioned in the parent articles, they really aren't that important to readers understanding the plot; they are more tangental to the storyline overall. I also removed Silva just because there was a lot of redundancy between mckay, silva and jenkins; I put the relevant info and mentions of Silva into mckay and it's less tripping over itself now. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 22:56, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Eh, seems reaosnable enough. If it keeps bugging me I'll just dig throught the history and restore those sections, but the article probably doesn't need them. Peptuck (talk) 07:35, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Thel 'Vadumee

I've split Thel's bit in The Arbiter section into its own section. There's no confirmation within the book that he actually is the Supreme Commander of Particular Justice - the most the book shows is that he is put in command of a cruiser within that fleet. If someone wants to contest this, I would ask they provide a source that actually says he does become the Supreme Commander. Peptuck (talk) 03:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

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