Talk:List of Japanoise artists

Article title

I am now wondering, should the proper article be "List of Japanoise artists" or "list of japanoise artists" (uncapitalized)? The term Japanoise is a conjunction of a properly capitalized word, but does it in forming the new word "japanoise" itself, which isn't in its own meaning a properly capitalized name or place, lose the nature of the initial word in the conjunction? The same problem, of course, isn't had in Japanese with the term japanoise; ジャパノイズ Nagelfar 17:43, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, I've just created an article for Japanoise, and the article name is of course capitalized automatically as part of the page creation setup on Wikipedia... So I'll vote for capital J, if only to maintain visual similarity with the (retroactive) "parent" article. (It's as good a tiebreaker as anything else.) MrBook 18:25, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

What not to add

The genre of japanoise, or I should say "japanoise as a genre" is more than just noise music by Japanese artists, or collage cut-up type electronic music, like some American noise music is. (Otherwise this is a sub-category of 'list of musicians' as "a genre within country" list, rather than genre in itself list particular to a cultural region of its own sound). Just whatever experimental or extreme artist from Japan doesn't belong in this list. Though a lot of it is arguable. Personally I concluded Melt-Banana not to belong here, as not fitting the harsh "japanoise" sound, neither does Gore Beyond Necropsy, being a grindcore/noisecore band and not noise or japanoise. Hope this clears my intentions. Nagelfar 17:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Collaboration bands & supergroups of the listed projects might be able to make a second list below the initial one, but I'm uncertain if that would be the best idea for the amount of projects that would not fit. Bustmonster/Bustmonsters might fit, but Flying Testicle is considered more of a prog-rock group and would probably be repeatedly listed, even if it is composed of Japanese noise artists. Nagelfar 06:38, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Hrgh. The thing is, Flying Testicle are usually referred to as "prog-rock," mainly by the band members themselves and Masami Akita in particular, but their actual sound is basically noise by any useful definition, just with off-and-on beats and musical instruments in the mix. But such confusion is probably just one more reason to leave them out -- and I would leave out Bustmonster(s) too. Supergroups and side-projects will just make everything too convoluted. The list as it stands is looking pretty great. MrBook 18:35, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, also, if we're knocking out Flying Testicle for reasons of prog-rock, I would think Ruins would definitely be out. I've only ever thought of them as Japanoise in the broad sense of the Japanoise "scene" in the late 80s, much as with Boredoms, but not in the sense of their music being noise per se... but maybe I just haven't listened to the right (early?) Ruins records. What it comes down to is that it's just a troublesome term, but still a useful one. MrBook 19:42, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I haven't heard their material so I can't comment, they're just mentioned very frequently along noise project lines and work with many of them, I know members have done very noisy Gerogerigegege albums. It is pretty tough when compiling such a wide swath of a scene to be familiar with so much of it. Since it is arguable, any non-supergroups i.e. groups that are unique and stand alone should probably be left, and 'lo-fi rock' "noise" probably should be kept; some would say Boredoms aren't true japanoise, etc. I was just wondering how many related projects in a list should be given a "slash" whose members are the same, like I've done for CCCC & astro. I was thinking of adding 'Noise Ramones' next to Boredoms, but there is already Hanatarashi there, and then I may have to add 'OOIOO' if we're being all inclusive and the list would begin to look crowded. Nagelfar 16:06, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Non Japanese artists of the style.

A secondary list of non-Japanese artists who have adopted the Japanoise type of noise music might be necessary to add, though such a list would be very arguable. I'd say bands like Xome, and many of the non-Japanese bands closely associated with the Japanoise scene itself. Nagelfar 04:54, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

It could be helpful, but it might be too much secondary information for a list, and I hesitate to open the doors too much lest this list turn into the kind of mess that the List of noise musicians has become. Complicating things further is that there is an article, albeit a neglected, underlinked one, for "harsh noise," which can be defined at its most basic as Japanese-style noise, performed by both Japanese and non-Japanese artists. Maybe a list tied into that article would be a good idea, though I still think a separate Japanoise list is needed... What's becoming clear from all this is that a full Japanoise article might be necessary in the near future. MrBook 02:26, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

There is also an article for Noisician that I put up some while ago, assuming later that it would probably be merged though hasn't. I do see what you mean about an article specifically on Japanoise, it may happen. Nagelfar 21:52, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Recent changes.

Thanks for the additions to the anon. user, but in question to "非常階段 / Hijōkaidan"; being that the list is in English alphabetical order, maybe "Hijōkaidan / 非常階段" might be more appropriate? I'll go ahead and add all the kanji & kana spellings I know that way. Nagelfar 07:25, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, it looks a little cluttered now, with all the kanji & kana. Maybe if they weren't part of the links themselves? It is nice for reference, but this is the English wikipedia after all and not a bi-lingual one. Any thoughts? Nagelfar 07:41, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Japanoise labels

Currently at the bottom Others list, Grand Cross Orchestra's Yasushi Tahara runs the "Robotomy Tapes" label. Other Japanese noise labels of which I'm uncertain if their owner has a noise project or not are; Inoxia Records (Enju Tanahashi), DBD Records (Ryuzi Kagaya) & Trial Run Tapes (Kazuhiro Ohtsuuka). Nagelfar 00:14, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

English alphabetical ordering when proper name

Yoshihide Ōtomo should technically be under "O", but when indexed, shouldn't surname appear first like "Ōtomo, Yoshihide"? (Esp. when named alongside entities other than persons like bands?) The aspect that it is the Japanese way and that conflicts with the English wikipedia manual of style when using Japanese shouldn't confuse the matter because with the comma it's properly indexed in the English style, correct? Though maybe the name as it appears on album titles should be given, but that almost makes me want to put it under "Y" at the bottom which would be technically incorrect. Any input? Nagelfar 05:58, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I clarified the WP:MOS-JA as the original intent was to apply to all instances of a name, and not just if the article was about that person. If the person was born pre-Meiji (before 1868), the name is Surname Given name, and if they were born from Meiji 1 on, the name is written Given name Surname. Names are always alphabetized by surname. Hope that helps. (^_^) --日本穣 Nihonjoe 18:24, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

It would be good if the names were standardized, as Eye's (unless he is somehow nearly 200 years old) name is given in the proper Japanese style (surname given name), while others (such as Yamanouchi/Yamauchi Juntaro's) are given in the western style.

What artists should be moved up to main-graph? What artists should be added to "others"?

I was considering moving 'Seed Mouth' & 'RoboChanMan' to the main graph, but there might be others that are more notable. It becomes difficult at which point a noise band is considered well known enough to possibly warrant it's own page in the future. I know there are plenty of other slightly-notable Japanoise bands which could be put into the 'others' section as well, I've come across so many names since I've ceased adding to that portion of the page that it's a bit overwhelming. Nagelfar 00:00, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I think all of the artists listed in the paragraph at the bottom should either be moved off the page or incorporated into the table. As it is, it looks messy with them all clumped at the bottom. ˑˑˑ日本穣 ^{Talk to Nihonjoε} 00:17, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and I originally meant that list to be temporary and for my own reference. Though I feel there should be a minor list of lesser-but-still-known Japanese noise artists whom are unlikely to get their own page in the future, which can be done as a secondary table under the first. As it stands however, I'm uncertain which artists deserve to stay there and which should be incorporated to the first table, google hits might be an objective way. Nagelfar 01:06, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

The second list is extremely helpful and definitely shouldn't be moved off the page. A secondary table or even just a simple bulleted list under the main table (that gets my vote) would be the way to go. As for who gets "called up": Definitely RHY Yau, who is one of the most important guys to come along in years, up there with Endo and Guilty Connector in the realm of notable upstart types. I've been meaning to start an article on him for months, but didn't feel like I knew enough about him. Keiji Haino isn't usually thought of as a straight japanoise artist, but there's a big enough overlap for him to make the list (and he's certainly notable enough). Seed Mouth, RoboChanMan, and Dislocation should probably be moved up. What a Smell is a maybe, as I've heard the name a lot, though I sense that may be mainly because they were on the Extreme Music from Japan comp. MrBook 11:29, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, a lot of those names are off of various artists compilations. Some of them I'm not even sure have had a stand alone release or were maybe just one time collaboration names of other artists together (which would kind of fall into the same category of groups like Bustmonsters which I haven't bothered listing) We really need Japanese input here of people who'd know which acts have been active locally. Nagelfar 15:06, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Artists involved ordering

I've been putting the artist names in English 'frontman of the project' first; except when a kanji spelling is known for a member other than the frontman and the frontman's is not. Then that name comes first in the English column to be in the same order as the following kanji spelling column. So as for right now, I've been doing it by the highly subjective 'most notable members' ordering, though this should probably be changed once we have all the proper spellings in both languages, if that ever happens. Unless someone has a better idea Nagelfar 15:26, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Yoshihide Ōtomo. Catagory Free-Improv and/or Japanoise?

Since there is a list now Improvised Music from Japan, I'm thinking maybe Yoshihide Ōtomo would fit more squarely there rather than here at this list too? Or is there enough overlap to be mentioned on both? He seems to fit the entire Improv-scene more, (i.e. going by just his name as an artist instead of having a project name, etc.) and his page Yoshihide Ōtomo seems to indictate as much also. Since most pages mentioning noise mention the Japanese improv scene separately, should we just take Yoshihide Ōtomo off the List of Japanoise artists? Nagelfar 20:58, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Heck, I just went ahead and did it since it just seems intuitive to do so for me. If there's any argument for re-adding though, let me know first here. Nagelfar 21:01, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Japanese characters

If anybody knows how the artist names; Hiroshi Hashimoto, Fumiyuki Nagura, Fumiyoshi Suzuki, Yutaka Tanaka … are written in Japanese characters, adding them would be appreciated since they have been blank for some time now. Also, how MO*TE, Nord, S*Core are rendered in Japanese would be helpful also. Not to mention any in the "others" category. Nagelfar 05:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

It appears we are only needing the project names "MO*TE, Nord, S*Core" as of now. Nagelfar 03:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

MO*TE

"MO*TE"/'mo te' should be easy to find the Kanji/Kana for. It is Japanese for something along the lines of "So was I". Could someone help by adding it to the table? Nagelfar 02:49, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

"unreferenced" template

I don't see why the citation rules apply to a list page where there are internal links. Nagelfar (talk) 21:50, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

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