Talk:List of Mormon family organizations

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What was the source of the initial listings? How are the organizations currently listed demonstrating that they meet enough of the general wp:Notability criteria to be included on this list? How are we ensuring that the list meets wp:Manual of Style (stand-alone lists) & wp:ORG as well? -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 22:39, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

We still need to define inclusion criteria for this list. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 00:13, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Four years later, the list seems well done. Any 'rules for inclusion' that you mentioned? -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 03:33, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Emphasis by LDS Church

A recent edit summary by 68.167.119.234 (talk · contribs) stated the following:

"Please stop changing this point. Recent GA talks as well as talks going back to 19th C indicate importance of family organizations, as do FH consultant materials, etc. Your uninformed deletion comment show you are NOT an expert on this topic."

That IP's preferred wording is:

LDS Church leaders have regularly taught the importance of establishing and supporting family organizations.

This is being supported by the following citations:

• Burton, Theodore M. (1971), "With Whom Will We Share Exaltation?", Ensign {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
• Belnap, W. Dean (1972), "How to Start a Family Organization and Keep It Going", Ensign {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

This appears to be in response to my own edit summary:

"Give examples of regular teach my GA's or stop changing this -- if extended family orgs were so important to LDS leaders, why hasn't this been the topic of a single Conference talk in more than 30 years!"

Based on the citations given, I believe only the following following wording can be supported:

LDS Church periodicals have included information on establishing and supporting family organizations.

WP is not place where domain experts rule; instead WP editors can legitimately challenge self proclaimed experts when adequate verifiable citations are not forthcoming. This is actually one of the pillars of WP - no wp:OR. With this edit and others I am trying to meet that standard & feel that the other editor is not. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 23:52, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Non-exhaustive list of references confirming that "LDS Church leaders have regularly taught the importance of establishing and supporting family organizations" has been inserted. Should shut up non-expert. Every point raised above addressed by expert on the topic. 'Nuff said. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stratavarious1 (talk • contribs) 00:27, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Let look at the these citations, in chronological order:

Previously existing in article

• Burton, Theodore M. (1971), "With Whom Will We Share Exaltation?", Ensign {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Strong support for assertion of LDS leaders teaching: Family organizations are essentially the topic of this talk by a General Authority (GA), who was an Assistant to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles when this statement published
  • Strong support for assertion that LDS Church periodicals publish info about family organizations
• Belnap, W. Dean (1972), "How to Start a Family Organization and Keep It Going", Ensign {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Does not support assertion of LDS leaders teaching: not a General Authority/General Officer of the LDS Church
  • Strong support for assertion LDS Church periodicals included info about family organizations

New

• Kimball, Spencer W. (1974), "Ocean Currents and Family Influences", Ensign, It is important for us ... to cultivate in our own family a sense that we belong together eternally. We ought to encourage our children to know their relatives. We need to talk of them, make effort to correspond with them, visit them, join family organizations, etc. {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Weak support for assertion of LDS leaders teaching: oblique mention of family organizations (not even a full sentence is dedicated to the topic) at end of a laundry list of actions only nominally supports prominence of the topic; however this mention did come from the then president of the church during his closing comments at a General Conference
  • Weak support for assertion LDS Church periodicals included info about family organizations: was just a passing mention
• "Six Families Tell How and Why they Organized." Ensign, Jan 1977, pp. 36–39
  • January 1977 Ensign at lds.org does not list this as part of that issue; only mention of that article title anywhere on lds.org is as a footnote (here) in another article. Assuming it actually appeared in the printed version, if it was not important enough to include in the digital version of that edition, it isn't useful as an indicator of how important this topic is to the LDS Church.
• Kimball, Spencer W. (1978), "The True Way of Life and Salvation", Ensign, First, all members should write a personal history and participate in a family organization. {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Weak support for assertion of LDS leaders teaching: oblique mention of family organizations (not even a full sentence is dedicated to the topic) at the beginning of a laundry list of actions only nominally supports prominence of the topic, especially when Kimballs talk specifically about families later in the conference ("Strengthening the Family—the Basic Unit of the Church") makes no mentions of family organizations; however this mention did come from the then president of the church during his opening comments at a General Conference
  • Weak support for assertion LDS Church periodicals included info about: was just a passing mention
• Gardner, Marvin K. (1978), "Getting--and Keeping--the Family Together", Ensign {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Does not support assertion of LDS leaders teaching: not a General Authority/General Officer of the LDS Church
  • Strong support for assertion that LDS Church periodicals publish info about family organizations
• Simmons, Paul (1981), "Beyond the Fourth Generation", Ensign {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Does not support assertion of LDS leaders teaching: not a General Authority/General Officer of the LDS Church
  • Strong support for assertion that LDS Church periodicals publish info about family organizations
• Unattributed (1982), "Family Organizations: For the Fun of It!", Ensign {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Does not support assertion of LDS leaders teaching: not a General Authority/General Officer of the LDS Church
  • Strong support for assertion that LDS Church periodicals publish info about family organizations
• Monson, Thomas S. (1994), "The Key of Faith", Ensign, Several years ago, prior to my call as a General Authority, it was my good fortune to respond to a call to serve as a member of the Priesthood Genealogy Committee and to have the privilege of visiting stakes and missions, speaking to the membership of the Church relative to this sacred subject... Out of the series of conferences we held then, one of the great measures of good was the development of family organizations. {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Weak support for assertion of LDS leaders teaching: oblique mention of family organization as being "good"; however this mention did come from the then second counselor in the first presidency of the church in a First Presidency Message
  • Weak support for assertion LDS Church periodicals included info about: was just a passing mention
• Brough, Monte J. (1994), "Everyone's Blessing", Ensign, Many of those opportunities are described in A Member's Guide to Temple and Family History Work, including: serving in family record extraction; serving in the temple, a family history center, or as a family history worker; participating in family organizations; keeping a personal journal; and preparing family histories (see p. 6). {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Weak support for assertion of LDS leaders teaching: oblique mention of family organizations (not even a full sentence is dedicated to the topic) as part of a laundry list of actions only nominally support prominence of the topic; however this mention did come from a then member of the Presidency of the Seventy
  • Weak support for assertion LDS Church periodicals included info about family organizations: was just a passing mention
• Unattributed (2001), "Building Unity through Family History", Ensign, Contributions include receiving our temple endowments, being sealed as couples and as families, researching family history data and stories of previous generations, submitting names for temple work, attending the temple as regularly as possible, teaching children and other family members about temple and family history work, participating in family organizations, and compiling personal and family histories. {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Does not support assertion of LDS leaders teaching: not a General Authority/General Officer of the LDS Church
  • Weak support for assertion that LDS Church periodicals publish info about family organizations: passing mention
• Clark, Carol L. (2003), "Random Sampler: Planning for Family Unity", Ensign {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Does not support assertion of LDS leaders teaching: not a General Authority/General Officer of the LDS Church
  • Support for assertion that LDS Church periodicals publish info about family organizations
• Evans, Loretta (2007), "It's All Been Done", Ensign {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  • Does not support assertion of LDS leaders teaching: not a General Authority/General Officer of the LDS Church
  • Support for assertion that LDS Church periodicals publish info about family organizations

All of the mentions by LDS Church GA/GO's that were recently added are one sentence or less passing mentions. All of the citations provided that are more than single sentence mentions have been by non-GA/GO's, and would rightly be considered informative instead of teaching. On balance, this sample supports the statement: LDS Church periodicals have included information on establishing and supporting family organizations. Likewise the article by Theodore M. Burton remains the only true "teaching" by a GA about family organizations, and it is still a 40 year old outlier. -- 71.223.123.218 (talk) 05:23, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Also still no General Conference talk about this topic in the last 30 years. -- 71.223.123.218 (talk) 05:30, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Go to LDS.org and enter the search phrase, [ "Family Reunion" ] and you will see half a dozen talks come up, including President Monson a decade ago, but the title of his talk is Home Teaching. This is similar to the other talks, only bring in 'family reunions' tangentially. -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 03:38, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Violates Style Guide for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Can someone rename this article? I'll be glad to help with the multitude of changes required, but don't know how to change the article's name. See https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/style-guide. CsikosLo (talk) 14:10, 23 July 2019 (UTC)