Talk:List of first women lawyers and judges in Asia

Comments

Hello everyone: I have seen comments written about this being a listing of the first women lawyers and judges in Asia, so why the inclusion of data regarding the first women who obtained law degrees or achieved political milestones? Please be aware that I am not trying to be contentious. If you look at my editing history, I try to be as accommodating as possible if somebody reverts any of my edits. In turn, if somebody adds something, I try to be respectful of their contributions even if I might not necessarily agree with their additions. So, I feel it necessary to clarify why certain data had been included on this list:

-During the research process, it became apparent that the titles of the "first female lawyer" or "first female judge" was given arbitrarily to various women. Using France as an example, Sarmisa Bilcescu has been cited as being France's first female lawyer. In actuality, she was the first woman to obtain a law degree in France, but she never practiced in the country (she moved back to her native Romania). The first female lawyer was Olga Petit, but Jeanne Chauvin was the first woman to actually practice in the French courts. With so many nuances, it became necessary to distinguish how each was the "first" in certain respects. The same kind of scenario might be said for other countries (such as in Asia), and that was the reasoning why there might be so many distinctions (which might seem excessive if you do not have the research data in front of you). -Based on the resources, it might finally be established who indeed was the first female lawyer or judge in the country's timeline. Yet, what about countries that were colonized? Are we going to ignore the native-born women that eventually became a lawyer or judge? What about other women that fall within a marginalized group? If they have a disability or are LGBT, for instance, they might have encountered their own unique societal or cultural constraints. Thus, the inclusion of other women who were "firsts" in other respects. It is hoped that such historical facets might be useful for researchers, and beneficial information for any of the marginalized groups in question. -Depending upon the country, the women might have low levels of literacy. Additionally, even if the women managed to receive an education, they might still have a lack of professional and political opportunities. Thus, for a female lawyer or judge to later become a senator, presidential candidate or hold a ministerial position can be significant. Are there other Wikipedia lists that regard women in politics? There might be, but perhaps not for every country. Even if such lists do exist, do they acknowledge a particular woman's law background prior to her entering politics? If she does not have a separate page, most likely that detail will remain unacknowledged (not even in the footnotes). Hence, the reason behind the inclusion of any political milestones achieved by female lawyers or judges on these lists.

If you believe that certain data on this page would be more useful on another Wikipedia page, then by all means please feel free to transfer the information (along with any cited resources). My whole mission for these pages has been to broadcast any historical information about female lawyers and judges from around the world. My main concern has been that certain data will be lost and, as a result, might impede any future research in regards to women in law. In which case, you might see me disagree and undo revisions. Please do know that I appreciate everyone here on Wikipedia and of course your expertise. Thank you all. Montgomery28 (talk) 07:18, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

It's just a matter of scope: this is a list of women firsts in, broadly speaking, law. The first women who got law degrees in a particular place is relevant to the topic: they're (either essentially or actually) lawyers, and your argument for including those is absolutely correct. The first women who got political office, unless they're Attorney-General (which, while stretching the scope a bit, is plausibly within its bounds) has nothing to do with the subject. We already have a list for those firsts: List of the first women holders of political offices in Asia, which sorely could use some work as it hasn't seen the attention this list has. By all means, go to town on that list if you're interested - that'd be great. A female lawyer becoming a first politician in an area is absolutely notable - in the first political offices list. I don't see a trailblazing politician having a legal background as any different in this way to someone with a hairdressing background: the best place for that level of detail is, if it doesn't exist and you think it's important, through creating an article about them.

I don't strongly object to including "first [marginalised group] woman entries in here, although it arguably bloats the article/would do if expanded further - possibly that's one to do on a case-by-case basis. I feel like it makes a lot more sense for, say, indigenous women (on the logic you mentioned) than for say, LGBT people, who are probably better off with a separate set of LGBT firsts lists. The Drover's Wife (talk) 11:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi The Drover's Wife: Thank you very much for your feedback. I will look into the other pages that you suggested (especially the ones that might require more attention) and see where I might transfer any information. Montgomery28 (talk) 17:25, 4 February 2019 (UTC)