Talk:List of independent southern football champions

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Virginia cites[edit]

@Omnibus and MisterCake:

Omnibus with this edit claims two book sources re 11 southern football championships for Virginia. Both citations currently lack page numbers, fwiw. If these are indeed valid, please add them to this article as well -only 2 of the 12 Virginia claims are currently cited. This Wikipedia citation tool for Google Books tool might be helpful as well. MisterCake is the resident expert on this topic in my view, hence the additional ping. UW Dawgs (talk) 18:23, 25 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

All 11 are cited (by someone else) on this page but I've only copied the information and sources for now. That webpage itself is not a reliable source per se, but I am lucky to have research access to physical copies of the primary source (three-volume set on the history of Southern football) and am going to comb through that specific book for more exacting references early next week. Sooner or later, I'll probably reform the aforementioned "independent southern champions" article into one that mentions the southern football champion claimants which played in organized conferences and not only the independent ones. And to be clear (perhaps it needs to be more clear in that article) the title here is a mythical one: the only "Southern Championship Game" ever played was when Virginia and Vanderbilt played to a 0–0 tie after the 1897 season. Omnibus (talk) 18:38, 25 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I too have Woodruff's book. 50 years of Vanderbilt football mostly about Vanderbilt of course, but if it helps that can definitely be got with interlibrary loan. Its problem is it's oversized. He also cites Alex Weyand. And make sure to check the individual team articles. For example, 1895 UVA also has a newspaper source for its championship. And yes, these are mythical titles, and the two before Trinity's title in 1891 are basically honorary, pioneer awards. "First southern team to play real football" against Northern schools. Though from 1891 and beyond one should definitely be able to find it said who is Southern champion in the newspapers at least. Also certainly true what Omnibus's edits say. Before the SIAA really gets going in 1902 (compare the All-Southern teams before and after 1902) UVA is the South's premier program. Replaced by Vanderbilt until Wade is at Alabama and Neyland at Tennessee (also Moran at Centre (HOF's biggest omission imo) Alexander at Tech and Bierman at Tulane etc), and then the SEC forms, so that 1897 game is rather symbolic. Certainly by 1905 the power has shifted, with the 1903 SIAA championship game and in 1904 McGugin and Donahue arriving along with Heisman going to Tech. Both LSU and Auburn would've been favored over UVA's 1908 team. Cake (talk) 20:37, 25 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]