Talk:List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, November 2014

This article was nominated for deletion on May 7 2014. The result of the discussion was delete all.

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Including Suicides in the List of Killings by Law Enforcement Officers pages[edit]

Recently User:Pdx97217 added a few suicides to this page. As I wrote on their user-talk page, I'm of two minds about this. However my main feeling is that suicides do not belong here, since "killing" does not normally include suicide. (For example, if someone said that there had been a killing on the block last night, you would not think of a suicide.)

Furthermore I think the main purpose of the page is to document killings of others by law enforcement officers, not suicides (though I can see why suicides would be of interest).

Any thoughts from others, like User:MaryDro?

Eponymous-Archon (talk) 19:07, 30 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The page is defined as, "a list of people killed by non-military law enforcement officers in November 2014, whether in the line of duty or not, and regardless of reason or method." Over the months that has included many suicides of officers and murders by officers when off duty. So I include those. Both suicides and murders are wholly relevant. But I'm not sure I would include a fatal accident caused by an officer; it's questionable and better decided by context. I can't think of an example of this over the past six months or so. Pdx97217 (talk) 01:45, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The more I think about this, the more I think the page should not include suicides. (Off-duty and vehicular killings are a different matter, as they are still killings in that one person ends the life of another.) I note that the page on the year's killings clearly describes killings that are not suicides, so the sub-pages shouldn't include them. How previous months were handled doesn't change my opinion of this. If suicides are left it, they should be very clearly marked as such and the text at the top of the page should clearly state this (which would mean changing all of them). Personally I would be happier to create three separate tables on each page for "use of lethal force," "accidental death" (e.g., vehicular), and "suicide," though a number of months have already been written up and this would be a lot of work. Still curious what others think. (User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah, User:MaryDro?) (As a side note, "killing" does not equal "murder".) Eponymous-Archon (talk) 02:28, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

--MaryDro (talk) 20:34, 2 December 2014 (UTC) If murder suicide then the victims should be on page but suicide alone should be excluded because it isn't one person killing another it is suicide![reply]

Thanks, User:MaryDro. Barring other objections, I'm going to delete the police suicides within a few days. Eponymous-Archon (talk) 15:21, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

---MaryDro (talk) 20:13, 3 December 2014 (UTC) I do think there should be a page for law enforcement officers suicides, I was unaware of how often they happen![reply]

Feel free! Eponymous-Archon (talk) 16:29, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Again, the page is defined as, "a list of people killed by non-military law enforcement officers in November 2014, whether in the line of duty or not, and regardless of reason or method." That definition includes suicides. You lose me as a contributor if you delete police suicides or off-duty homicides.Pdx97217 (talk) 16:38, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"If I don't get my way I won't contribute any more"... gosh, that's a new one. No one has ever said or done something like that around here. By all means other editors, he seems pretty serious about this and we certainly don't want to lose anyone over a disagreement. Let's just do it his way and breath a sigh of relief that such a disaster was averted. – JBarta (talk) 16:50, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, I think a additional page would be better but we can make that in the future I will try to get some free time to figure that out or even make them a different color. We don't wanna lose ya!!

--MaryDro (talk) 16:27, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]