Talk:List of monastic houses in County Cork

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Castlelyons[edit]

There were two entries in this list regarding Castlelyons, both referring to John de Barry as founder at the beginning of the 14th century with assumed associations to the Carmelites, Franciscans, and Dominicans. This appears to be misleading as there is no doubt that John de Barry founded just a house of Carmelite friars in 1307 or 1309 and no other house in Castlelyons. The confusion is old due to a mistaken entry by Ware and some mixup in regard to the Dominicans. Let me quote some more recent literature:

Franciscan association
  • Aubrey Gwynn and R. Neville Hadcock: Medieval Religious Houses Ireland, Longman, London 1970, p. 277 in regard to Castlelyons and the Franciscans: "Ware 198, followed by Alemand, Archdall, etc., mistakes the Carmelite friary here for Franciscans, fd. in 1307. It is not in the 1331 Franciscan list. The Franciscans were not established in Castlelyons until the seventeenth century: C.M." (C.M. refers to Canice Mooney, O.F.M., one of the leading Franciscan researchers of the 20th century.)
  • Patrick Conlan: Franciscan Ireland, The Lilliput Press, 1988, p. 113: The remains here are of a Carmelite friary, founded in 1307. However, there was a Franciscan residency in the area in the early eighteenth century, but the site has not been identified."
Dominican association
  • Aubrey Gwynn and R. Neville Hadcock: Medieval Religious Houses Ireland, Longman, London 1970, p. 232 in regard to Castlelyons and the Dominicans: "In 1309 John de Barry fd. a priory here for the Carmelites, q.v. Ware mistook the order for Franciscan (fd. 1307), and Burgo (pp. 240–2) suggests that it was Dominican. FML 90 and Coleman 50 consider that there was no pre-Reformation Dominican house here, and in 1541 the jurors' reports give the Carmelite friary as the only religious house in Castlelyons: E. O'Heyne 70–3, says thtat the abbey (Dominican) called Castlelyons was left uninhabited for a long time until 1683 (r. 1673?), when Lord Barrymore, though then a Protestant, showed the Dominican Provincial, Fr. O'Keeffe, and Fr. Wm. Barry, from his archives, that it had been fd. by his ancestors for the Dominicans and he obtained the Provincial's consent for Fr. Barry to be appointed prior; upon the accession of K. James (1685) Lord Barrymore gave the site to Fr. Barry for his order. Mould 65, 263, points out that there are at Castlelyons extensive ruins of a priory and part of the tower of another. The latter may have belonged to a church (Castellbeghan, identified by Newport White as Castlelyons: E 147, 416) appropriate to Ballybeg priory, O.S.A., which was also a de Barry foundation. The Dominicans possibly obtained this church after Ballybeg priory was suppressed, but it seems unlikely that they settled in Castlelyons before the first half of the seventeenth century."
  • Benedict O'Sullivan OP: Medieval Irish Dominican Studies, Four Courts Press, Dublin 2009, p. 88: "Castlelyons was a Carmelite foundation. It was ascribed to the Dominicans through a misunderstanding of the term, ‘Whitefriars’, as happened occasionally in the State Papers of the later sixteenth and seventeenth centuries."

Hence, I've removed the second entry, leaving only Castlelyons as foundation of the Carmelites. --AFBorchert (talk) 07:38, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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