Talk:Lord Peter Wimsey/Archive 1

Full name

In all of the editions I've seen, it's been "Peter Death Bredon Wimsey", not De'ath. I think we should leave it as the publishers had it. In particular, Murder Must Advertise makes much of the visual appearance of Lord Peter's middle names (and assumed alias) as Death. -- April 09:55 Aug 15, 2002 (PDT)

My memory must be playing tricks, April, I was always under the impression that there was an apostrophe as in the prominent Essex family (who came from near Witham), De'Ath. Probably my mistake. user:sjc

• • I could of course be wrong. I think that the derivation of "Death" in the name was probably exactly as you say, a variation on the known De'Ath name; but given the nature of the novels, it wouldn't surprise me if Sayers chose to write it without the apostrophe for the sake of the irony involved. Mostly, I just have a vivid recollection of the reactions to LPW as he starts to print his name on the employee card as "Death", and their jokes about it. And if I remember right, LPW says something about, "rhymes with teeth, though I think it's more picturesque if rhymed with breath." Can you see how fond of the novels I am? ;) -- April

Yes. I have a similar problem with Lord Dunsany and the source works of Norse mythology. You know it's getting out of control when you can recite chapter and verse without recourse to the source works. user:sjc

When my dad was at school, there was a boy in his class whose surname was Death. Pronounced to rhyme with breath. 81.129.23.204 (talk) 21:12, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Photo

It might be a good idea to explain the photo with more than "The Real Lord Peter".... --Michael 04:37 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Well, there's a link to Roy Ridley, and there you can see the same image again. That should suffice. --KF 08:36 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

It doesn't. The name "Roy Ridley" appears nowhere in the text. I don't know the name "Roy Ridley" from "John Doe". The article as-is has a pointlessly-captioned picture that has no clear relationship to the written contents. I'm putting it back the way I left it. Let's not go into a stupid WikiWar over this. --Michael 23:00 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

WW II

The article says that Lord Peter served in WWII. What is the source of this? The last novel appeared in 1937. Was there a short story (ies) written later that gave this information?66.1.40.242 19:51, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

In 1940 Sayers published a series of newspaper articles called "The Wimsey Papers", in which various of our favorite characters held forth on the issues of the day: letters to the press and officials, letters to each other, whatever. They didn't catch on well, apparently, and the series ended after a few weeks. In a couple of them it is clear that Lord Peter is in his country's service, in some Undiscloed Location. The novel by Jill Paton Walsh, A Presumption of Death, picks up on this. Oh, and it's clear enough in the short story "Tallboys" (not published till much later) that he's off on some official work. Dandrake 23:36, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)

Lord Peter's WWII service is detailed in her unfinished novel, Thrones, Dominations. --Penguin020 15:56, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Also mentioned in various other places, because we know he suffered from shellshock 81.129.23.204 (talk) 21:12, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

The shellshock was sustaind in WWI not WWII85.227.195.18 (talk) 09:50, 24 February 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.227.195.18 (talk) 09:34, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

WP naming conventions

If Lord Peter were non-fiction, Wikipedia's naming conventions would probably put this article at Peter Wimsey (since this is a courtesy title, and there is no full form ) - primarily to permit direct links when he is mentioned without title. Would such a move be controversial? Septentrionalis 03:09, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

On second thought, I will be bold; if anyone disagrees, it can be moved back before discussion or WP:RM. This is partly to simplify style issues at Duke of Denver. Septentrionalis 03:25, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know where you got that idea from — we always put the sons of dukes and marquesses at Lord John Smith. For example, Lord Randolph Churchill, Lord William Bentinck, Lord Edward FitzGerald, Lord Frederick Cavendish... Proteus (Talk) 23:13, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:DorothyLSayers MuderMustAdvertise.jpg

Image:DorothyLSayers MuderMustAdvertise.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 01:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

While you're at it, it's kinda silly to claim that a paperback cover from the seventies/early eighties is an "early paperback cover". A paperback from the twenties or thirties, sure. You might even stretch it to one of the wartime book covers from the forties. But the seventies? No. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.185.187.46 (talk) 23:58, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

More precisely, that is a 1987 edition, released to tie in to the Edward Petherbridge BBC series. It's one of the ones that I'm missing, actually. Would the user who uploaded the image consider selling their book to me? *grin* Also, sweet Jeebus, are these Fair Use rationale moans exasperating or what? HipsterDad (talk) 14:14, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Clouds of Witness

In the 1935 reissue of this novel by victor gollancz, there is a charming fictional biographical sketch by his uncle, Paul Austin Delagardie, commissioned by Ms. Sayers. It also has a "who's who" type entry before the preface. I dont know if this is reprinted in other volumes, but its a good source for the character. I'd be glad to enter the brief data here, if other editions dont contain it.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:50, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

They do. Opera hat (talk) 23:52, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "Death"

The pronunciation of the name Death is very convoluted for non-english speakers, I propose that /di:θ/ is inserted. There is a whole bunch of British names that have very unexpected proununciations for non-brits, like Ralph/Rafe, St John/Sinjin, Calquhoun/Cohoon which are almost never explained.85.227.195.18 (talk) 09:50, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm actually hesitant to do this. The exact quote from Murder Must Advertise referenced above is "I have. It's spelt Death. Pronounce it any way you like. Most of the people who are plagued with it make it rhyme with teeth, but personally I think it sounds more picturesque when rhymed with breath. What did my amiable cousin say about me?" While this is "Death Bredon" speaking, not Lord Peter, I suspect Peter used the same rationale. Maybe we'd be better off just footnoting the quote? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:19, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

I support your idea of footnoting the quote (and not just because Murder Must Advertise is my favorite Wimsey novel). It would seem to be the closest Sayers came to giving a pronunciation for it, unless there's other quotes I'm not aware of. So that makes it our most reliable source for the pronunciation in this case. Princess Lirin (talk) 04:30, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

The quote is certainly a valid point, but there needs to be a clarification that the name Death normally has an unexpected pronunciation. As a non-english native speaker I was not aware that Death was a "real" name at all, it has always been a mystery to me how Ms Sayers could choose such a ominous name for her protagonist.

Yet another incitament to clarify the pronunciation is that neither of the two translated versions I have read mentions this very passage, presumably because it simply won't translate into another language, I expect that other translators have done likewise. To a reader outside Britain it would most likely never occure to pronunce it differently than the noun death. As far as I can recall, this is the only time that the pronunciation is mentioned in all of the works concerning LPW.

I presume that the form "Deeth" is much more frequently used than "Death" and that to use the latter would attract attention from people he meets. As LPW uses this nom de guerre on several occations whe he wants to be incognito (a bibolous matter of taste (sp) for example) there is is a point in hand to use the "normal" form of the name.

Ms Sayers expected her readers to be well educated an knowledgeable, her books are strewn with passages from the Bible, allusions, litterary quotations (and misquotations), french, latin and greek. She never clarified any of this but expected her readers to know exactly the significance of these things. The only exception is the translation of the french letter in the end of Clouds of witnesses which her editor fought hard and long to be able to include.

Unfortunatly things have changes over the near century that has passed since the books where written and a classical education is the advantage of few theese days an so we have to try to explain what we can. Ryddarn (talk) 22:37, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Punctuation issues

Near the end of the intro, there is a word followed by a parenthesed ellipsis and another period and it looks odd.

Janet Hitchman, in the preface to "Striding Folly", remarks that "Wimsey may have been the sad ghost of a wartime lover(...). Oxford, as everywhere in the country, was filled with bereaved women, but it may have been more noticeable in university towns where a whole year's intake could be wiped out in France in less than an hour." There is, however, no verifiable evidence of any such World War I lover of Sayers on whom the character of Wimsey might be based.

My first impulse was that the article writer was after "wartime lover[...]. Oxford" but the text as it is could be a direct quote and therefore correct. Without access to the source material I can't tell. Our library system doesn't have the book and neither does mobileread which has free ebooks of most public domain books (all lovingly created by fellow bibliophiles) so can someone who can access the book double check the quote?

By the same token, there are places where it seems like the article's quotes aren't using logical punctuation but it's hard to tell for sure (some are obvious and I'll be fixing them as soon as I post this). As I write this I'm listening to a Lord Peter Wimsey story on bbc.co.uk and like it enough to get the books I can from mobileread so I'll confirm those as I can but wouldn't object to some help. --Kitsunegami (talk) 01:25, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Seriously?

"and is not to be confused with the major city by that name in Colorado"

Do we actually have to say that? It seems kind of condescending. I mean, who could be so geographically (or historically?) confused as to believe that an Englishman would be the duke of an American city?--Ibis3 (talk) 18:26, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Heh. Wanna take bets on that one? :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:35, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Hobbies

I've just added an image of a rare book Lord P owns, by way of illustrating Incunabulum. However, do you really need two pictures of his car? --217.155.32.221 (talk) 16:05, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

I don't think we need the picture of the rare book, either, since that is a real thing, and the one Lord P owns is not real. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 23:19, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

"Bon vivant"

In the second line, Wimsey is described as a bon vivant. Now, I admit I haven't read any of the novels in a LONG time, but I wouldn't have thought of him as a person too fond of good food, but as a dilettante, an amateur. Unless anyone objects very soon, I'm going to boldly change that. Awien (talk) 16:55, 2 August 2014 (UTC)