Talk:Louis Edward Curdes/GA1

GA Review

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Nominator: 98.97.46.82 (talk · contribs) 23:30, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk · contribs) 03:02, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed the wording of those sentences. Also unless it is GA criteria to define a flying ace in the article itself, I don't really feel it to be necessary. Flying ace is blue linked so all a reader on PC needs to do is hover the mouse over the blue link and they can read a short description without going to a separate article. A phone user could just tap the blue link, read what a flying ace is and then return to this article. I'm open to changing it to meet GA criteria, but this way makes sense to me. 98.97.46.82 (talk) 01:56, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I reworded the "After the war" and "Death and legacy" sections. They actually read a lot better now, but what parts more specifically of the "North Africa and Italy" section need to be reworded? 98.97.46.82 (talk) 03:37, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The North Africa and Italy section wasn't that bad, and I think it can be left as is. As for the GA criteria, part of the criteria is that the article is understandable to an appropriately broad audience, which is talked about in Wikipedia:Make technical articles understandable. A lot of people only really read the lead of an article, so it's especially important to make sure your lead is understandable to a broad audience (although ideally your entire article should be). For this reason, it is quite common for articles to explain certain terminology that the average reader may not be familiar with. "Flying ace" is one of those terms. While people familiar with military terminology probably know what a flying ace is, those who aren't may not be. While linking terms is helpful, the less a reader has to stop and lookup the meaning of a term, the better. Additionally, we want articles to be accessible to a broad audience. If someone well versed in military terminology reads the page, they can simply skip over the explanation. However, if someone less familiar with terminology doesn't have to go lookup a term, then the more engaged they are with an article. Seeing as you fixed the major issues with the article I will continue with the review within the next 2-3 days. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 04:14, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That makes sense. I will work on that and the unreliable source issue tomorrow. It shouldn't take too long. And thank you for the quick reply. 98.97.46.82 (talk) 05:15, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good! Thank you for being receptive to my criticism as I know it can be a lot at once. I look forward to reviewing this page! CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 08:14, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Awards and decorations:

The Don Hollway source has a picture of Curdes in uniform with the Command Pilot Badge. It is partially covered by his uniform above his ribbons. Also Curdes meets the basic requirement to be awarded the badge according to info here U.S. Air Force aeronautical rating.

Curdes just barely meets requirements for the American Defense Service Medal. Also he is wearing the ribbon for this medal in images from the Don Hollway source as well other sources using the same image.

The Asiatic–Pacific Campaign Medal with 1 silver service star is also sourced from images of Curdes in uniform. Also although he arrived late in the Pacific Theater there were still plenty of campaigns from August 1944 until the end of the war for him to have participated in.

When I was doing a lot of the research for this article, I found that some sources disagreed on how many of which medals he was awarded. I'm not sure why that is so I more often went with sources that had images of Curdes in uniform which displayed his ribbons. The European–African–Middle Eastern Campaign Medal was one such medal, and as with the previous medal above, it too had many campaigns to participate in.

The National Defense Service Medal is also on Curdes uniform although the picture is from 1960. The NDSM was awarded during different periods of war and can be awarded multiple times, but not more than four times currently. Curdes served during two different time periods that the NDSM was awarded so he qualified for another award of the NDSM. I actually missed this in my research somehow and it was added to the article by some random user.

The Philippine Liberation Medal can be seen with two bronze service stars on Curdes wedding photo in the Don Hollway source. He also meets at least two of the medal's criteria. 98.97.46.82 (talk) 03:33, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good thank you for clarifying that for me. I'm not familiar with military things so I'm going to trust you on this one (though everything you said seems plausible and in line with what I've read thus far). One thing I would like to mention is the lead of this article. While there isn't technically a requirement for GA leads they should be high quality. Ideally, the lead of the article summarizes what is said in the body. Because the lead typically uses content from the body it does not need citations (that is unless you are adding information not in the rest of the article). I dug up some examples of GA about military people that I feel reflect this if you want to check those out. José de San Martín - gives basic info about the topic, summarizes his time in the military, and then ends off by talking about his legacy. David M. Shoup - again gives us some basic info, talks a bit about his background, and talks about his political views. Walter Oesau - a little on the shorter side but does a good job of summarizing the rest of the article in a straightforward way. Vojislav Lukačević - this one mostly talks about his life events but I felt it does a great job of summarizing things. James MacLachlan - a little on the longer side but wanted to include it due to the amount of detail. Romualdas Marcinkus - Again a well-written summary. I would love to see the current lead edited to reflect this level of quality. Around 4 paragraphs is ideal but really I'm just looking for a good overview of the subject including basic information (date of birth, what he's known for etc), a bit about his experience in the military (this is where you want to highlight what he's really known for as well as any significant opinions he held or important missions he was a part of), and a bit about his legacy (awards, his death if that is considered relevant, and anything else that is notable). CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 04:29, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. I will work on that later today. 98.97.46.82 (talk) 13:51, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see that you have improved the lead quite significantly, good job! If you are using notes they need to be referanced, however I do feel that the notes you added to the lead are a bit off topic and should be removed. There is a couple citations left in the lead that you could remove but this is up to you. I'll continue with the rest of my review now. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 05:29, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	"American flying ace" In order for this to be understandable to a broad audience flying ace should be defined. Done "helped Art Smith with getting his aircraft airborne" This wording is awkward. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 03:30, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Based off the size of this article the lede could be expanded substantially and you could also use content from the body of the article so that there is less citations in the lede. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 03:30, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
2. Verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 03:02, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	ref 6 [1] isn't a very reliable source and I would replace this if possible. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 03:30, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply] Currently doing a source review and will update as I go. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 00:14, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply] Early life: Able to access and verify all sources. No plagiarism issues. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 00:14, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply] World War II: After the war: "After World War II, Curdes met Svetlana Valeria Shostakovich Brownell in Los Angles, California on a blind date and they later married in Allen County, Indiana, on the 13 of April 1946." Neither sources verify that they got married in Allen County or the date in which they got married. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 05:48, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply] "After they honeymooned in Cuba and Florida, they settled down in Fort Wayne, Indiana." Not supported by source. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 05:48, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply] It would be helpful if you put the refs after the text they were used for instead of clustering them at the end but this doesn't disclude you from GA status. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 05:48, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply] "Svetlana was born in Harbin, Manchuria on the 23 of May 1925 to Russian parents and is the niece of Dmitri Shostakovich, a Soviet composer and pianist." Sources don't support the exact birthdate. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 05:48, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply] refs 5 and 3 should be moved to the end of the sentence "Jerome Brownell died not long later in June of 1932 of a septic soar throat and his remains were later sent home on the USS Wilson" as they don't support the following sentence. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 05:48, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply] "On the 1 of September 1951, Curdes was promoted to the rank of Major and 12 years later, in October 1963, he retired from the Air Force as a Lieutenant Colonel. After his retirement, he founded a construction company called Curdes Builders Company." ref 1 doesn't support this. It does support some of the information but not the specific dates. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 05:48, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply] Death and legacy: Was not able to access refs 14 and 15 however everything else was verified. No plagiarism issues. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 02:48, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply] Awards and decorations: ~~I think this may be my lack of knowledge on the topic but none of the articles linked say he had the Command Pilot Badge. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 02:36, 28 August 2024 (UTC)~~ [reply] The Wikipedia page lists an award called "American Defense Service Medal" However the sources provided only mention "National Defense Service Medal". CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 02:36, 28 August 2024 (UTC) [reply] The sources provided also do not support "Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with 1 silver service star" (This ref [2] states he has the Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal but not the silver service star). CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 02:36, 28 August 2024 (UTC) [reply] The Wikipedia article states "European–African–Middle Eastern Campaign Medal with 4 bronze service stars" however this ref [3] states that he only had 3 bronze stars. I believe this may be a typo but wanted to double check first. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 02:36, 28 August 2024 (UTC) [reply] ~~"National Defense Service Medal with 1 bronze service star" Sources do not support the bronze service star part. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 02:36, 28 August 2024 (UTC)~~ [reply] ~~"Philippine Liberation Medal with 2 bronze service stars" Sources do not support the 2 bronze service stars part. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 02:36, 28 August 2024 (UTC)~~[reply] Just based off some of the spot checks I did a lot of the times you cited the more unreliable website, your other sources backed up the info. I would encourage you to go back and check all of the times you used that source and see if you can get rid of some of the times you cited it. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 02:57, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	2c. it contains no original research.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	There is close paraphrasing between this article ref 4 [4], as seen here [5]. The following sections need to be significantly reworded: North Africa and Italy: Last two paragraphs After the war: First and last paragraphs. Death and legacy: First paragraph. This was just found from a quick copyvio search.CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 03:02, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply] Done CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 00:14, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 03:02, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 03:30, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	Great use of images! CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 00:14, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
	7. Overall assessment.	~~On hold until the nominator can address the issues with close paraphrasing and unreliable sources. If these issues are fixed I will happily continue this review.~~CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 03:30, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply] On hold until the nominator can ~~address the issues with sourcing and~~ expand the lead. Once that issue is dealt with I will continue my review. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 02:57, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]