Talk:Luang Pu Sodh Candasaro

Spelling name

I note spelling differences between the name used for the page title, "Phramongkolthepmuni", and from places in the body of the article, where it is spelled, "Phramonkhonthepmuni". Is this intentional? I have no knowledge to share on the subject, just noticed the difference when searching for info about the monk. PaulieParrot (talk) 15:37, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Both spellings may be used, since there are no standards for transliterating Thai honorific names, but for consistency, i have corrected all the names that didn't agree with the page title. Thanks for mentioning this.S Khemadhammo (talk) 22:12, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Proposed change of title page

Pending any objections, I propose to change the name of this Wikipedia page to Luang Pu Wat Paknam, for reasons mentioned in the talk page of Phrathepyanmahamuni.S Khemadhammo (talk) 02:14, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

I have no proposed a new title Luang Pu Sodh Candasaro, since this name is better known in Thailand. I have posted this on the proposed name page.S Khemadhammo (talk) 20:16, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 21 August 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Unopposed request. Number 57 19:53, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

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Phramongkolthepmuni → Luang Pu Sodh Candasaro – Currently, the title of page is the official honorific. This name is not the name he is mostly known as. "Luang Pu" is commonly used for Thai monks that have passed away, and his given name and monastic name are Sodh and Candasaro, respectively S Khemadhammo (talk) 12:01, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Different timelines in different works

Scholars have given different years for important events in the life of Luang Pu Sodh. Below is an attempt at comparison, that I will be updating regularly, to come to a consensus on the correct dates. See also Talk:Dhammakaya meditation#Disputed. I will restrict this comparison to secondary sources.

Timeline events life Luang Pu Sodh Candasaro.

Event	Cook (1981)	Scott (2009)	Newell (2008)	Mackenzie (2007)	Fuengfusakul (1998)	Harvey (2013)
Birth	1885	1884	1885	1885	1884	not mentioned
Ordination	1907/8	1903	1907/8	1903	1906	not mentioned
Attainment of the Dhammakaya	not mentioned	not mentioned	1916	not mentioned	not mentioned	1915
Death	1959	1959	1959	1959	1959	not mentioned

--S Khemadhammo (talk) 10:42, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Updated.--Farang Rak Tham

(Talk) 20:33, 3 March 2018 (UTC)22:29, 4 March 2018 (UTC)11:41, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Luang Pu Sodh Candasaro/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Display name 99 (talk · contribs) 16:43, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

I am beginning this review now. Just so you know, I know very little about Buddhism. That is a bit of a disadvantage in the sense that it's harder for me to notice anything that might be inaccurate. However, it also helps me to notice things in the article which are not clearly explained better than an expert on Buddhism might be able to.

Early life

* No periods in image captions are required unless they follow complete sentences. Fixed.

* The article says "from an early age" in back to back sentences. That's a bit superfluous. Removed.

* "When his uncle moved to Wat Hua Bho, his uncle took him with him to teach." This sounds like his uncle took Sodh with him so that Sodh could teach. That doesn't seem right. Also, you shouldn't say "his uncle" twice in the same sentence.

Fixed.

* "he desired to ordain as a monk."-Be ordained?

That is a very knowledgeable comment for someone claiming to know little about religious matters! Fixed.

I'm a practicing Catholic. We use the same terminology to describe someone becoming a deacon, priest, or bishop. I just don't know much about Buddhism. Display name 99 (talk) 18:43, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

• How exactly did he save money for the family to live without him?

I have rewritten this. Please check this.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 17:58, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

I still don't think this answers the question. I know that he saved money so that his family could survive after he became a monk. Did he save money from his business by spending less than usual or by some other means?

I have to check this with the sources.

The secondary sources do not mention this, but the biography from Wat Phra Dhammakaya says he "set to work with a fervour". It also states how he calculated the rise of inflation. He did this in a period of four years. I have cited the biography with inline attribution.

Farang Rak Tham, I have responded above to the points you have made. I typically strike any comments that I originally posted in order to help keep track of what has been fixed. Display name 99 (talk) 18:43, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Okay. I have also added indents.

• There isn't a great sense of time passage in the first paragraph. I recommend adding some more years.

I have added his age a few more times. The years are not often given in the sources.

• What does "Pāli" mean?

Pali language. I have added the word language. Is this sufficient?

It looks fine. Display name 99 (talk) 23:11, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

• What are alms rounds? You have to explain these things.

Wikiman5676 has helped to add detail. I have added a wikilink to an article with a section on the Buddhist practice.

• "third rainy season"-Not likely to give somebody a sense of how long that is unless one is familiar with the weather in Thailand.

Should be clarified now.

• "the renowned masters of the time"-Like who? Also I'm not sure that this conforms to NPOV.

Rephrased.

• "his first breakrough"-Needs more detail.

Rephrased for neutrality. Will look for more detail in Newell's PhD thesis.

Added more detail and rephrased.

"he perceived an inner sphere of light"-What is the significance of that? Display name 99 (talk) 23:11, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

The attainment of the Dhammakaya

• When mentioning someone for the first time in an article, in this case Newell, use the person's full name.

Done.

• "eleventh year of his ordination"-Which was?

Fixed.

• "a full moon day in 1916"-What was the date?

I don't think this has been passed down. But i will check.

The exact date has not been mentioned in any sources, as people still kept track of time through the lunar calendar in early modern Thailand. I could track the date down through historical calendars, but this might take quite a while, and it is perhaps better to describe the historical dates as they were understood and categorized by the people of those days. Similarly, I noticed the text says October, but this should actually be the tenth lunar month. I have fixed this now.

That should be good. Display name 99 (talk) 23:11, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

• There's not a lot on what "attainment of the Dhammakaya" actually means.

This is quite a subject on its own, with a lot of detail that is difficult to summarize. I have added a see also item to the section. Will this suffice?

Yes. Display name 99 (talk) 23:11, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

• I suggest breaking this up into two smaller paragraphs.

Done.

• "The event of the attainment of the Dhammakaya is usually described by the Dhammakaya movement in miraculous and cosmic terms."-Way too vague.

Added detail.

Life as an abbot

• Where exactly did he teach? Could some of these place names have links?

Added detail and wikilinks.

• The article refers to its subject interchangeable as "Luang Pu Sodh" or "Luang Pu Sodh." You need to be consistent. Pick one.

Not sure what you mean. When he was still a child, I have referred to him as "Sodh", after his ordination I have referred to him as "Phra Candasaro", and after he became abbot I have referred to him as "Luang Pu Sodh". I admit that this can be confusing, but in the context of Thai culture and history, a person of ten changes names often throughout his life, and positions are often part of a person's name. See also Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Buddhism/Archive_1#Monastic_naming_conventions

Alright then. Display name 99 (talk) 03:28, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

• "The last three royal titles were given late, due to the fact that the temple was not under royal patronage."-Huh? Why was the date that they were given considered late? How does royal patronage work? Why would he be prevented from receiving the titles if the temple wasn't under it?

I have added some more explanation. The sources i have used take this as a fact and do not expand on it.

Teaching meditation

• Once again, this paragraph should be broken up.

Done.

• What's the difference between "teaching meditation" and "teaching Buddhism?"

Rephrased.

• "the claims which he made about Dhammakaya"-Like what?

Rephrased.

• There seems to be some sort of supernatural power that the Dhammakaya Buddhist associated with their meditation. Could you go into a bit more detail about how they thought that worked?

I have added some examples.

Interesting... Display name 99 (talk) 03:28, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

References

• There are Harvard errors all over the place. If you use Harvard references in the article body, you have make sure that the main sources being cited below are also cited using the Harvard format. This can be done by adding ref=harv to the citations. Display name 99 (talk) 16:43, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Fixed.

Display name 99, thank you very much for all your advice! I will work on it. This might be gradual over a few days.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 17:15, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes, that's normal. 7 days is the standard length of a GA review, although the reviewer is free to give the nominator additional time. Display name 99 (talk) 17:16, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

References

Farang Rak Tham, I have checked off the remaining points. There is still one thing at the end of "Early life" that needs to be worked on. After that, I see no reason why this can't be promoted. Display name 99 (talk) 03:28, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Hello Display name 99, I noticed you changed the statement on cosmic terms from "such as" to "often including" heavy rains. I am a bit confused about this change, it seems to change the meaning. "Such as" implies the heavy rains is an example, which i feel was the sentences intent. "Often including" seems to imply this was the only cosmic or miraculous thing about attaining Dhammakaya, which I dont think was the sentences intent. Can you explain the change please? Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:43, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

I thought that it sounded clearer, and did not intend to change the meaning. It seems as though I did, accidentally, and have self-reverted. I apologize for the confusion. Thank you for telling me about this. Display name 99 (talk) 04:15, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Display name 99 and Wikiman5676, I have made an additional number of edits, and have fixed the remaining issue by adding a note from Harvey. Please let me know what you guys think.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 20:18, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

It looks fine to me. I've promoted the article. Display name 99 (talk) 22:47, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, Display name 99! Thank you for all your efforts to help.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 15:10, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know? nomination brainstorm

Hello Wikiman5676 and other contributors,

I am nominating the article for a Did You Know? entry on the Wikipedia front page. Here's a few I came up with:

Did you know...

• ...that the monk Luang Pu Sodh Candasaro played a significant role in reviving Thai Buddhism?
• ...that followers of the monk Luang Pu Sodh Candasaro hold that he discovered the original meditation method that the Buddha used to attain enlightenment?
• ...Luang Pu Sodh Candasaro ordained the first Englishman in Thailand as a Buddhist monk?
• ...the ordination of three British men as Buddhist monks in Thailand in 1956, led by the abbot Luang Pu Sodh Candasaro, attracted an audience of 10,000 people?
• ...Kapilavaḍḍho, the first Englishman ordained as a Buddhist monk in Thailand, is believed to have set up the first Theravāda community in Britain?

Let me know what you guys think. We only have a week.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 23:16, 6 June 2017 (UTC) Minor edit.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 23:25, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

10,000 people one seems the most interesting. Though I really wish someone would make a "Did you know that the Dhammakaya movement and Wat Phra Dhammakaya is not the same thing?" a lot of ppl including journalists dont seem to know this. Wikiman5676 (talk) 02:42, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Wikiman5676, thanks for your input. That difference is not mentioned in Luang Pu Sodh's article, but I'll keep it in mind. --Farang Rak Tham (talk) 07:35, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Display name 99, any opinion about the DYK suggestions i made? --Farang Rak Tham (talk) 07:38, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Farang Rak Tham, I have no experience with DYK nominations. However, I seem to think that you would have the best chance with the 2nd and 3rd things listed. Display name 99 (talk) 12:59, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Okay, I have listed them all. Let's see if any of them passes.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 18:01, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

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