Talk:Lynching of Laura and L. D. Nelson/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Mark Arsten (talk · contribs) 15:00, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Will review, comments to follow within the next few days. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:00, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

  • "No-one was ever charged with the murders" I'm not used to seeing "no-one" hyphenated, but if you think it's Ok I have no objection.
  • "– a different bridge in what is probably the same location now carries State Highway 56." I'm not sure this is really needed in the caption.
  • Might want to link grand jury.
  • "73 percent of them in the South" You might want to write out "Southern United States" here.
  • ”Around midnight on May 24, Laura and her son were kidnapped from their cells by a group of men that included Charley Guthrie (1879–1956), the father of folk singer Woody Guthrie (1912–1967), according to a statement given in 1977 by the former's brother.” I’d suggest breaking this sentence up if you can.
  • Fixed no one; I like including a description of the current location in the infobox, so I've kept that; linked to grand jury, wrote out Southern United States, broke up long sentence. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:33, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Restored the South, because we already say United States in that sentence, so reading it again it looked odd to repeat Southern United States. SlimVirgin (talk) 02:24, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Shooting and arrests

  • "Other sources reported that L.D. had fired the shot because he believed Loney had reached for his gun; William Bittle and Gilbert Geis, citing contemporaneous reports, write that Loney approached the father, and that the son, believing Loney had reached for his gun and that his father was in danger, fired the shot." Is the part before the semicolon needed here?
  • "sent to the state prison in McAlester, which a local newspaper wrote probably saved his life." Might want to name the paper if you can.
  • Also, you might want to note how far McAlester is from Okemah.
  • ”something that Joe Klein wrote particularly upset the white community.” I’m not sure the in-text attribution is needed here.
  • ”Austin pleaded guilty to larceny and on May 12 was sentenced to three years' imprisonment, then sent to the state prison in McAlester, which a local newspaper wrote probably saved his life.” I’d suggest breaking this sentence up too.
  • ”The Daily Oklahoman reported that a week before her death Laura tried to overpower Lawrence Payne, the jailor, and take his revolver, but he subdued her” Might want to note whether this was reported before or after the lynching.
  • I've fixed the "L.D. fired the shot" sentences. I don't think I know which local newspaper said the thing about saving his life; I'll look again. I can look for how far away McAlester is, but I'm not sure that would add relevant information. I added the Joe Klein in-text attribution for several reasons, in part because some of the things I'm finding in his work I have not found elsewhere; but I'll check to see whether that point is unique to him.

    I think the "Austin pleaded guilty" sentence is better longer than broken up (I prefer the rhythm of longish sentences). The report for the last point came after the lynching, but it may also have appeared before it, so I left it vague; will see if I can rework it. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:33, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Made clear when the Daily Oklahoman reported Laura trying to overpower the jailor, and added distance between McAlester and Okemah. SlimVirgin (talk) 02:24, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lynching

  • You have The Crisis introduced as the NAACP's paper at its second mention in the body, should probably move that to the first.
  • "One newspaper reported:" Might want to name the newspaper.
Will look at linking in the lead. When I don't name the newspaper, it's because I don't know; several secondary sources cite contemporaneous newspaper accounts without saying which ones.
Added National Association for the Advancement of Colored People to the lead. SlimVirgin (talk) 02:24, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reaction

  • You introduce the initialism here, "National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP)", you should probably do that at its first mention.
  • Delinked on second reference, but retained initials there, because it's only in that section that I mention it more than once. SlimVirgin (talk) 02:24, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See also

  • Generally I think it's best to try to work the see also links into the body of the article if you can. Not a big deal though.
  • These are links that can't easily be worked in, and which might anyway be more prominent as further reading if they're left in the See also section. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:33, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

  • Including links to findagrave and the anonymous personal website is not strictly forbidden, so I guess it's a preference issue at this point. If this goes to FAC though, you might get a hard time about it.
  • I agree that findagrave is not ideal. But the dates are consistent with various genealogical sites I've looked at myself, and I footnote directly after them to highlight that they're from findagrave, and that it's self-published. I felt that was a bit of a safeguard. I normally never add refs inside a sentence.

    The personal website I added to a footnote is only there because it reproduces some of the texts of the early reports, and it's just a footnote, so I see no harm in it. The website owner copied them from Lynch 2004, which is in the References section but is only available on Google Books as snippet view. The early reports that I've found elsewhere were reproduced accurately on that website, so I think it's okay. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:33, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I still have to look over a couple more sections in more detail, so I'll come back with a few more suggestions. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:05, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments so far. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:33, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry to have kept you waiting so long, but I should finish the review soon. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Second pass

  • I made a few copyedits, feel free to revert.
  • Some of these are fairly minor, but here's the rest. Not all of these need to be resolved before the article is passed.
  • Make sure you have an inline citation after every sentence with a direct quotation.
  • Whether the lynching postcard with the note on the back is Washington or not varies between sources. Might want to remove the parenthetical statement in that sentence. "One card in Allen's collection, of the lynching of Jesse Washington in May 1916 in Waco, Texas, says on the back:" You can leave it in though if you disagree.
  • "The jailor, who was again Lawrence Payne," I think you can take out the part after the comma, since he was just introduced.
  • You might think about moving the last paragraph of the lead to the body.
  • If you could add a little about how race relations in Oklahoma proceeded after the lynching it might be helpful. If you can find good sourcing though.
  • How uncommon was it for there to be a female victim of a lynching? I was under the impression that that was kind of rare.
  • I'd move the bit about Abu Girab to the end of that section, also, maybe move the bit about Allen collecting the postcards down too. Also, if you could give more detail about why he thought it was a good comparison.
  • Any more details about the NAACP's response that could be added?
  • Ok, that's all from me. Again, very impressive work. It's great to see people recording the hard-to-write-about aspects of American history here. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:52, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi Mark, thanks for the review. I've just received several more copies of early newspaper reports, so I'm able to fill in some of the details now, rather than having to rely on inconsistent secondary sources. I'll give you a shout when I've written them up. SlimVirgin (talk) 16:27, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okay, there have been quite a few changes. Apologies for that. I expected it to take longer to get hold of the primary sources.
  1. I've changed the details of the lynching to reflect what the May 1911 news reports said, rather than relying on secondary sources. I've uploaded images of the news articles to Commons (see Category:Laura and L.D. Nelson), and the images can be enlarged so the stories can be read easily. I've added links to the images to the footnotes, and to the References section.
  2. I've moved the article to Lynching of Laura and L.D. Nelson, because there's no mention of Lawrence in the early sources. They call the mother Mary, the father Oscar and the son L.W. The names Laura, Austin and L.D. come from the 1900 census, courtesy of historian Frances Jones-Sneed, supported by several other secondary sources.
  3. I have an inline citation after each quote, or in the next footnote, and I think it's always clear who is being quoted.
  4. I retained that the postcard is of Jesse Washington.
  5. I removed the repetition about Lawrence Payne being the jailer.
  6. I moved much, but not all, of the last paragraph of the lead into a new summary-style section about lynching.
  7. I haven't added anything about race relations in Oklahoma after the lynching because it's a huge subject, and I'd like to keep this article shortish and focused.
  8. I added details about how uncommon the lynching of women was, both to the lead, and to the new lynching section.
  9. I moved the material about Abu Ghraib and Allen's exhibition to the end of the article.
  10. I didn't add more about the NAACP's response. I think what we have summarizes the key points.
  • Hope this is okay for now. I would like to find more primary sources for the aftermath, and just a bit more analysis. If I can do that, I may consider nominating it for FAC. But in the meantime I hope this passes muster for GA. SlimVirgin (talk) 17:14, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, this definitely does pass muster for a GA. Thanks for working on it and bearing with me for the review. I'll pass it now.
  • Images are all licensed correctly.
  • Spotchecked 64, 59, 57, and 47, no issues found. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:32, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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