Talk:Macedonian cuisine (Greek)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Old discussions

What's next? Soup from Kavala? Sour cream from Naoussa? Bomac 19:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I love Macedonian halva.--Tekleni 23:53, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Are there Patsasidika any where else in Greece than in Macedonia? That was one of the first restaurants I frequented in Thessaloniki. I think it was on Egnatia, but I haven't pinned it down yet. Also two other vague memories that need clarification. In the autumn walking street vendors sold a warm drink to pedestrians. It was made of ?sesame? It was a Turkish-origin tradition, and I was told was on the way out. Also, the first food I purchased in a store was called a ?Karioca? It was a chocolate covered confection, but I can't remember more. Some ideas. Spourghitsa 04:39, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Update on 31/12/2006 entry: Patsas found on Tulumba web site in dried packets. Does not compare with watching live butchers chopping and throwing into the kettle, but it isn't bad. Warm drink is sahlepi, also found on Tulumba. Current powder is an artificial flavor, mixed with hot milk. Originally, it was made from wild orchids and had respiratory benefits. Hence, its vendors active in the damp months of the autumn. Found karioca!!!! It is for sale at www.nedim.gr, a bakery in Xanthi. Now I wonder if it was always their proprietary recipe, and they sold to the store in Thessaloniki, or whether I simply lucked onto one bakery who is online. Anyway, if you can afford to order some --- very yummy stuff!!! :0)Spourghitsa (talk) 22:51, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Merge

Are there really differences between the cuisine of "Slavic" and "Greek"? I do not think that we could differentiate between the cuisine used by inhabitants of the Republic and those of Macedonia (Greece) or of the Blagoevgrad Province of Bulgaria. Also, Macedoninas from Greek Macedonia with Greek ethnicity and/or descent would share the cuisine with their Slavic-speakig neighbours. 20th centure immigrants from Asia Minor may have their own traditions, but the cultural heritage of Macedonians is more or less the same in the entire Region of Macedonia]]. This is, of course, my own original research, but so is the idea the there is a Greek Macedonian ciusine (very few hits in Google)[1][2].  Andreas  ^(T) 15:16, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Andreas I personally disagree. I think that the difference between the two cuisines should remain. Should we merge the Greek and Italian cuisines because they are similar? Actually we characterize them as Mediterranean but there are separate links for each cuisine! Further more there are clear differences between the 2 cuisines which can only be seen after reading the two articles! (Don’t forget also that the Greek- Macedonian cuisine is influenced by the Greeks of Asia minor. At the same time the cuisine of Slavic-Macedonians is heavily influenced by Albanian and Bulgarian cuisine!) So I will request for the tag to be removed! Thank you for your time. (Seleukosa 12:51, 19 February 2007 (UTC))

Further more after a closer look I can see that Bulgarian cuisine is very close related to the Slavic-Macedonian cuisine. In my opinion they are identical. Should we merge them?? (Seleukosa 13:27, 19 February 2007 (UTC))

It seems to me that the primary motive for this article on "Macedonian cuisine" is not gastronomic, but political. After all, I don't see articles on Cretan cuisine, Ionian Island cuisine, etc. It would make more sense to have Macedonian specialties in a subsection of the Greek cuisine article.

As for Slavic Macedonian vs. Bulgarian, I agree that there is a great deal of similarity. But, alas, cuisine has become "national property", like folk costumes, folk music, etc. It would be more honest to talk about the Balkan and the Ottoman cuisine regions (northern Greece belongs to both), rather than split things up into Greek, Turkish, Bulgarian, Albanian, etc. cuisines, but .... --Macrakis 15:53, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree in general with your views Macrakis. But I also think that it would be a good idea if there are more regional cuisines from Greece! Especialy the cretan cuisine! Very Good idea! (Seleukosa 00:21, 21 February 2007 (UTC))

Regarding the source, sourcebook, cookbook controversy. Why would one expect that a regional cuisine, which is primarily consisting of traditional dishes, even ancient traditions, would have been detailed in written form and/or that any publisher would find it profitable to publish such a book if it *was* written down? One should rely on the good will, knowledge, and experience of those contributing to this article. Perhaps, if one does not, it would be better to read elsewhere and/or visit the place oneself and experience the cuisince on location. Of course, if sources do exist, do much for the better for the enjoyment of all. How about someone create an oral history by interviewing a knowledgeable yiayia on tape! All in good humor. (grin) Kalos Orexi! Spourghitsa (talk) 22:35, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

If there aren't any good sources for a subject, Wikipedia policy says we shouldn't write about it. That doesn't mean the subject doesn't exist, simply that Wikipedia's goal is to reflect serious, reputable sources, and not to serve as a place to publish original research drawing on personal experience. An oral history would be great -- but WP policy says that it first has to be published elsewhere before we can draw on it. --Macrakis (talk) 21:10, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

i think also that the macedonian cuisine should be one article.. i personally im macedonian and i know our cuisine very well. i have a lot of greek macedonian friends and i am very often in greek macedonia and i would say our cuisines are practicly identical.. i know every dish from the greek macedonian cuisine from my mother allthough i come from skopje. p.s there are a lot of typical greek macedonian dishes that are missing in the article.. like mussaka, sarmadakia, dolmadakia etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.99.194.30 (talk) 21:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Sources

There are no sources that show that particular dishes are regional for [[Macedonia {Greece)]]. This article only makes sense if at least one cookbook specific for Macedonia (Greece) is cited.  Andreas  ^(T) 15:08, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I did add a cook book specific foer Greek-macedonia as a refernce therefore I request the deletion of the Tag. thank you (Seleukosa 18:20, 14 June 2007 (UTC))

Since there are no objections I am deleting the tag Seleukosa 19:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Seleukosa, do you own the book? Can you verify that the recipes mentioned in the article are included in the book and are authentic Macedonian dishes (as opposed to general Greek or Balkanic recipes)?  Andreas  ^(T) 22:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Merge discussion

The proposal was withdrawn per consensus against merge. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 09:28, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The merge discussion can be found here. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 20:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

RfC

As I have been working on the cuisine articles, I have come across a pattern for those articles that fall under the term fusion cuisine. These articles cover hybrid cuisines or cuisines that refer to cuisines that span across ethnic and/or geographic lines. Examples include, Chinese Islamic cuisine, Korean Buddhist cuisine, Turkish-Cypriot cuisine and others. These examples cover regions that have a similar situation where there is geographic location that has multiple ethnic groups residing in the same area, bringing their own cultural standards and influencing the region in their own way.

Based on this naming convention, would it be proper to move this article to the name Greek Macedonian cuisine?

--Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 09:20, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

If no one is objecting, I will move this article as such January 1, 2009. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 06:19, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

If the reasoning behind the proposed move is to denote a "fusion" of "Greek" and "Macedonian" cuisine, then that's plain wrong. The article is about the cuisine of the Greek region of Macedonia. There are no "ethnic and/or geographic lines" being spanned in this case; it is simply the regional cuisine of the Macedonians, a group of Greeks within Greece. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· 09:46, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree with ΚΕΚΡΩΨ . "Fusion cuisine" usually refers to a blurred line of food prep with two distinctly different cultures contributing (such as French-Japanese Fusion). and the article is not referring to the fusion of food from Greece and the Republic of Macedonia. No change to the article name. 207.237.33.133 (talk) 10:34, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Are the people identifying themselves as Greek Macedonian or Macedonian Greek? If it is the former, the proper naming guide line is Greek Macedonian cuisine, if it is the latter than it should be called Macedonian Greek cuisine. If they call themselves Greek then this article should be merged into the Greek cuisine article, unless there is a quantifiable reason to have two separate articles. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 20:24, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

They identify themselves as all of the above, but plain Macedonians is by far the most common term when referring to their regional identity. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· 07:24, 31 December 2008 (UTC)