Talk:Mandala/Archive 1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Buddhist mandala - "demon trap"

I believe I saw a T documentary regarding Tibetan Buddhist monks making a mandala, in the manner described in the article. Once they were done (i.e. when they were convinced the mandala was an uncannily good representation of the world) they performed a ritual which (if memory serves) was intended to attract evil spirits (bad intentions, whatever). On arriving, the spirits would be fooled by the mandala, believing it to be the world itself, and would go inside it (hoping to do some demonic mischief, no doubt). Before they'd figured out the ruse, the monks would quit chanting and would destroy the mandala and (as the article says) sweep it away. This had the effect of destroying (or at least scattering) the demons. My question: is this a real practice, or just an artifact of my memory or a filmmaker's overactive imagination? If it is done, I think a (better written and sourced) section in this regard would make a good addition to the article. (or did I just reduce one of the world's great religions into a scene from Ghostbusters?) -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 18:11, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)


It is indeed the filmmaker's imagination as it is going against the principle of sand mandalas which is that of the deity's palace. Jmlee369 02:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Removal of GohonzonInfo site information, other external links

At first I thought this section and link would be good for those curious as to what the gohonzon looks like, but gohonzons are not available for viewing or downloading as the writer claims. On visiting the site at the ofther end of the link, it looks to me like this is more an advertisement intended to draw people to a more or less moribund mailing list (rarely more than two or three posts a month); I have therefore removed it.

The other external links that I've removed also do not point to further information on mandala, but rather to sites, some commercial, featuring artwork that draws on mandalas for inspiration but does not depict them directly. Yet another was a link to a self-proclaimed prophet of sorts and again was not related directly to mandalas. Jim_Lockhart 12:10, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

No sources

This article contains no referemces or sources. It could be vastly improved by addition of them. I will try to find some. Peter morrell 06:10, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Generic Mandala -- Other cultures

This page seems to be very "indio-centric" -- although the word is from this origin, mandala relates to similar objects in many cultures [1] -- why is there no mention of the aztec or inca civilizations

If you know anything about it, feel free to add! rudy 21:33, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Doubtful sources

This page is awash with 'sources' at the moment, but certainly in the Buddhist section, these are very poor sources alltogether - there are too many guesses, interpretations and too little knowlegeable sources, please be careful with just copying info from mediocre websites... I hope to edit the buddhist section soon. rudy 00:58, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

well, you've made right mess of the article by removing much useful material...who says those links are bad? good wikipedians seek consensu first rather than arrogantly removing whole swathes of stuff...no single person is ultimate arbiter of what is right...and, in 36 years of studying dharma I have never seen it said that "the ring of flames repesents wisdom"...please give a citation for this POV addition before it is removed. Let us work for consensus as that is a very sound approach. thank you 213.40.131.65 19:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC) ooops! not logged in... sorry. Peter morrell 19:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Sorry Peter, but I'm involved in Tibetan Buddhism for nearly 20 years now, which sources do you want? Is the Kalachakra tantra good enough? You have quoted many websites - among it also mine, but in my view you have mixed up various concepts and quotes out of context. Sorry, but if I see unreliable websites as 'sources' for incorrect info, I assume the person who put the text in here does not know too much about the subject. rudy 15:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
your titles, claims and years of practice count for nothing: answer my question: where is the citation to support the quotation you put in? When I see evidence for it then you will have the respect you crave. Please lay aside any tangible ego issue for you. It is a matter of factual accuracy. To claim that the outer circle is about wisdom is entirely inconsistent with manadala symbolism. The outer circles are about samsara, not wisdom. This you should know! Peter morrell 16:11, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
OK you have had ample time to supply the requested evidence and you have failed to do so. Let me show you some evidence then. Here is a good point: In mandalas, "beginning with the outer circles, one often finds the following structure: a ring of fire, frequently depticted as a stylized scrollwork, which symbolizes the process of transformation necessary to enter the sacred territory within."[1] That makes clear the transition I previously alluded to, from samsara to nirvana as one moves from the outer region of the mandala towards the inner sections. This text is from Rossi and Rossi, Tibetan Painted Mandalas, and is clearly a completely reputable source. It says nothing about the ring of fire symbolising wisdom, which is your claim.

Further: "The Ring of Fire: From vedic times, fire has been an essential ritual element. The outer circle of the mandala is often explained as a ring of fire, depicted by stylized scrollwork meant to represent flames. It has also been explained as the periphery of the universe, or the outer wall of the profane world, beyond which lies chaos. To begin the mystical journey, one must leave samsara, the world of phenomena, and pass through this flaming barrier to enter the sacred enclosure of the mandala. According to some interpretations, its purpose is not to terrify the aspirant from entering, but rather to show that the flame of the wisdom contained within the mandala can burn away ignorance and error. By means of the symbolic fire, understanding of supreme reality may be attained."[2]

This quote gives even clearer support for the viewpoint I have previously expressed here and in the parts of the article you removed without negotiation, that is arrogantly. But it also contains a reference to "according to some interpretations" the wisdom aspect you mention.

In summary then, I was right in what I said in the quotations you rashly removed. Now will you please acknowledge that I was right and that you were rash to remove NPOV material from the article? And then perhaps we can work on this article in harmony to improve it. thank you. Peter morrell 06:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Peter - regarding your 'ring of fire' quote, from Rossi/Rossi - it's not a reliable source. The basic problem that this page will have is that often reliable sources are generally admonished against talking publicly about mandalas. For those individuals such as Rudy, who have studied and practiced the secret path for many decades, it is generally very easy to identify authors who fabricate theories based on little or no evidence. There are actually several reliable translations from the Tibetan tradition that can be safely relied upon. - For instance, ISBN 0646382918. In general, regarding symbolism and meaning, every instance of every single symbol - both actual and implied (such as relationships, proximity, etc) have 6 major meanings, of which each have 4 differing flavours - on top of which, each of these 24 variants are said to have another ten or so levels of meaning, in accordance with the realisation (Bhumi) of the Bodhisattva involved in the meditation. Other systems add yet another layer of three meanings, and sometimes yet another layer of four meanings again.

Re. The Rossi quote, let us examine it piece by piece:

From vedic times, fire has been an essential ritual element. True, but not relevant to the issue.

The outer circle of the mandala is often explained as a ring of fire, depicted by stylized scrollwork meant to represent flames. No sources given - also, the outer circle is not always fire. Lastly, it is only a ring of fire in it's symbolic form.

It has also been explained as the periphery of the universe, or the outer wall of the profane world, beyond which lies chaos. No sources given - also a very doubtful insertion of the word 'profane' - a term that has little or no meaning in the Indo-himalayan traditions that use mandalas. The idea of a 'beyond' in which lies chaos, I would suggest is complete fabrication of the authors.

To begin the mystical journey, "one must leave samsara, the world of phenomena, and pass through this flaming barrier to enter the sacred enclosure of the mandala." - No sources given, no authority, and a complete misunderstanding of the nature of mandalas. "Mystical" - where does that come from? Samsara being the the world of phenomena - Not according to Buddhism. Moreover, the sentence implies that the mandala is non-phenomenal, which would make it invisible, and unknowable. I would suggest this is a complete fabrication of the authors.

According to some interpretations, its purpose is not to terrify the aspirant from entering, but rather to show that the flame of the wisdom contained within the mandala can burn away ignorance and error. - No sources given, a completely weird idea that fire is terrifying by nature - and a haphazard rip-off of some text authored by Tucci.

By means of the symbolic fire, understanding of supreme reality may be attained. As mentioned earlier - every symbol in a mandala has many sets of meaning that are very carefully designed. However, understanding "supreme reality" is not done by symbols! Symbols are representations. The understanding of "supreme reality" also really needs to be defined more clearly. Is this Buddhahood? Omniscience? Arya Sunyata?

So basically, I would agree with Rudyh or whoever about the use of such authors - they are not reliable. If one must quote from them - then cite them clearly and make it clear that they are not authorities in any manner other than having wrote a book.

Notes

  1. ^ http://www.asianart.com/mandalas/structure.html
  2. ^ http://dl.lib.brown.edu/BuddhistTempleArt/txtfiles/Symbols.txt

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Peter morrell (talk • contribs) 05:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

Western Mandalas

It would be great if someone could add a section about Western Mandalas in Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Although we don't call them Mandalas in the West things like Rose Windows, the illuminations of Hildegard von Bingen, Islamic geometrical art and Kaballist (eg the Cube of Metatron etc) imagery are Mandalas in all but name. Jung talks about this very thing in many of his works comparing Western to Eastern religion (eg his intro to The Secret of the Golden Flower). I sometimes wonder how we would sudddenly see our religions in the West if started thinking of them as Mandalas ie inner images of contemplation rather than just religious images. Who knows? Maybe I'll do it. :-)ThePeg 11:39, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

About this external link Free Mandalas ready to print and coloring for senior people

In this page to go to the mandalas click at the link "to the mandalas" at the end of page

Day by day will be there a big collection of mandalas, whose scheme of color has been chosen so that it does not cause confusions to the senior people, because there are not too similar colors.

This Link is not spam, is a sincere and serious supply to those who perhaps needs it more. Valvanera it is a real 89 years lady, who has been filling of sense part of her time coloring more that 200 mandalas, and want to share her positive experience. We, her relatives, do not agree with the deletion of this link because it has a clear social and cultural function. (unsigned comment by User:62.57.136.100 on 1 March 2007)

For information about what is and is not consider spam on Wikipedia, please see WP:SPAM. Please note that this is not a matter of anyone's sincerity or seriousness or their positive (or negative, for that matter) experiences, but rather one of whether the link belongs in an encyclopedia—which I believe holds true for the other links on that page as well, many of which I also think should be removed! Wikipedia is also not supposed to be a link farm.

Surely there are more appropriate places on the Web where you and your family can reach your intended audience and Ms. Valvanera's works can be better appreciated. Good luck and best regards, Jim_Lockhart 13:41, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry so much, but I am not in agreement with your interpretation of which it says the guideline with respect to Spam with external links.

There it says:

"Adding external links to an article or user page for the purpose of promoting a website or a product is not allowed, and is considered to be spam."

This is not the case. This Link don´t tries to promote neither a Web nor a product. This Link tries to contribute with information on the way to find a specific type of mandalas : mandalas easy to be colored by senior people ( I do not see in this Article another Link with that information ).

I was thinking that in the flexibility of its inhabitants resided partly the greatness of Internet, and it seems that wikipedia share with me this thought when in the first paragraph of the guideline says :

"This page is considered a guideline on Wikipedia. It is generally accepted among editors and is considered a standard that all users should follow. However, it is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception."

Mr Lockhart let me tell you that, imo, perhaps the first mandala in the world was the earth itself... where we have to live all together ;).

I don't want to revise my thoughts about the Net, please be a little flexible. Thank you.

UPDATE : Nov, 6th 2007: Based on the origin of the visits to this page and their comments, thousands of people have benefited from finding this link here. Why deprive future visitors of this information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.57.139.153 (talk) 09:11, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


From Assistance Request

Are you trying to add a link to a website that you own or administer? ~a (user • talk • contribs) 18:25, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree with the other editor. Both links are against WP:EL guidelines (specifically Links normally to be avoided #12 - one is a personal site, the other a blog), and were rightly removed. They also appear to be your own sites which goes against #4 and your re-adding them can be considered spam. AnmaFinotera 18:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I try to understand all those reasons, but also there is a fact: during all those months where this link has been there, thanks to it, thousands of aged people have benefited from the discovering of the activity of to coloring mandalas. I am sorry for the ones who comes next, but now, this is not my decision anymore.Valvanera 07:38, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Valvanera (talk • contribs) 11:09, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Bifurcate this article

The term "mandala" has too specific interpretation in specific contexts and I propose the bifurcation of this article into at least two - Manadala (Tibetan Buddhism), Mandala (Vedic Hinduism).

Ref. Slokas similar to - "Akhandamandalakaram vyaptam yenacharacharam, tatpadam darshitam nityam tasmai shri guruvai namah".

Such slokas from vedic Hinduism (is there any other Hinduism?) are based on the basic concept of the Mandala - the manifold of dimensions - something that can also be considered in scientific light today. There are many schools of thought as to how many mandalas exist. The manadalas of the body, for instance, are five - also called kosha or sharira; viz from pranamayi kosh to anandamayi kosh.

However, when talking of existence 14 mandalas are said to exist. The Akandamandala is the all encompasing, nirguna, niramaya, akshara parabhrahmah. This is the mandala of oneness and unity alone - the true advaita. Through divisions through the manadals existence as we percieve manifests. The Hindu trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh occupy intermediate mandals and are therefore referred to as madhyavarti; ie. that which lies in between.

I hope the justification of my request is obvious. I could continue to elaborate on this article, but I do not wish to do so for a few reasons - (i) what I have refered to is not a very specialised piece of knowledge and I am left to wonder why the many knowledgeable people interested here never brought up this topic; (ii) I have had my edits vandalised by some administrators in the past and find it an unnecessary waste of my time to reason with them for something well referenced and validly encylopaedic; (iii) Whether the above suggestion is incorporated into the said article or not - is not my concern...

tamasoma jyotirgamaya - "let there be light where there is darkness".

122.169.18.124 (talk) 17:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC)hi_pedler

I don't think the article should be split until there is enough content about Hindu usage to warrant a separate article. Right now our Hindu usage section here is quite small. But if at some point enough content was added that a separate article made sense then that would be fine. You're more than welcome to expand the Hindu section of the article of course. - Owlmonkey (talk) 20:12, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

dharmic religions and indian religions

Both are the same list of religions i.e. Jainism, Buddhism, sikhism, and Hinduism. See Indian religions and the following sources on dharmic religions. The listed sources are all the reliable sources that I could find for the obscure neologism "dharmic religion".

1. Frawley, David. From the River of Heaven: Hindu and Vedic Knowledge for the Modern Age. Pg 27. Berkeley, California: Book Passage Press, 1990. ISBN 1878423010. Frawley mentions only hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, and Buddhism as dharmic religions. [2]
2. Encarta encyclopedia [[3]"Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism share with Hinduism the concept of dharma along with other key concepts, and the four religions may be said to belong to the dharmic tradition."
3. Tharoor, Shashi in a column in The Hindu newspaper Different takes on the faith, available online
4. Westerlund, David Questioning the Secular State: The Worldwide Resurgence of Religion in Politics page 16 "may provide some possibilities for co-operation with Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists, who like Hindus are regarded as adherents of ‘dharmic' religions."

Andries 23:50, 9 September 2007 (UTC) 

ok i still dont get a meaning of what t actually is.. can someone please write a defenition in 8th grade level..thank you  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.127.114.167 (talk) 01:08, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

The term Mandala in the context of the Rigveda

In the Rigveda article mandalas are said to be the name of each of the ten sub-divisions of the Rig-Veda. I don't see this use reflected in the present article. Should it not be discussed how the etymology allows for such disparate usage? __meco (talk) 19:07, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Representation in other media

There is a debate regarding my contribution to the article regarding the use of the mandala in the 2007 sci-fi movie The Last Mimzy. The section makes reference to a movie that uses the concept of mandala and the mandala itself as a big and important part of the storyline and I (in MHO) think that there should be a reference to such a film in this article. On the other hand user User:Owlmonkey disagrees with this. I am requesting the opinion of more wikipedians regarding this issue. Thanks Camilo Sanchez (talk) 19:17, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe it's trivial and not notable, or at least the reasoning for why it's notable is not given and would like to remove it. I'm also worried that having a section title like that will attract all sorts of junk long term which won't add to the understanding of mandala in meaningful ways. In part, this is because of the Wikipedia:"In popular culture" articles essay and Wikipedia:Avoid trivia sections guideline, but more so that it's in the wrong place. When I do a quick search for people commenting on the use of a mandala in the movie, like this one, this one, and this one, it's not adding anything to an understanding of what a mandala is particularly just that it's used in the film. If it is notable, then it's more likely so in the Last Mimzy article and not the Mandala article and it should be moved there. The Last Mimzy article currently lacks any notable mention of its mandala usage, but it's definitely more notable there if anywhere. One concession, I do think it is notable that in the West mandala taking on new meanings that may differ from the usages already described in this article. This movie seems to define it in the context of science fiction as relating to time travel. It's an isolated usage maybe, so I don't think that's notable enough yet until other movies or science fiction novels start making that a trend to use mandalas in that way, but I could see this movie used as a citation to support a discussion in the article (not as a trivia section entry though) for how mandala has been appropriated in new ways in the West. But then it would be used as a citation not as a stand alone fact. I also feel it would require that there really be a trend there worth noting, that the definition of mandala has widened. - Owlmonkey (talk) 19:42, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, no one else seems to have a strong opinion. How about this, including a mention of the movie but specifically as a support for how mandala is being used in the west with new meanings. So it merges with the section above it and we add more detail. How's that for a compromise? Something like this then:

Other meanings of mandala
In the West, mandala is also used to refer to the "personal world" in which one lives, the various elements of the mandala or the activities and interests in which one engages, the most important being at the centre of the mandala and the least important at the periphery. Depicting one's personal mandala in pictorial form can give one a good indication of the state of one's spiritual life.[citation needed]
In science fiction, geometric patterns akin to mandalas have been used to represent advanced technology with esoteric properties, such as the time travel mechanism in the 2007 movie The Last Mimzy or the alien signal in the 2005 television show Threshold.

Would that work for you? - Owlmonkey (talk) 19:57, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Making the switch now. - Owlmonkey (talk) 22:28, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
That looks good to me. Camilo Sanchez (talk) 08:05, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the reference to Cowen might be to the book by Cynthia E. Cowen Lights, Symbols and Angels. A. Alcock 141.51.48.179 (talk) 09:22, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

More Hindu Mandala Description Needed

Has anyone noticed that there is less description and commentary under the "in Hinduism" heading than any other religion heading? Considering that the Mandala is Hindu in origin, this should be a much higher priority. My knowledge of Hinduism is so poor that I hardly qualify to try an edit, but I know that it needs more than the two sentences its got right now.

A second issue: does anyone find the "as mandala" sections suspicious, or at least in need of citations? For example, the assertion "Dream catchers are also mandalas" needs qualification.

67.9.145.74 (talk) 17:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)erc


Why isn't there any discussion of hi_pedler's remarks? If I had time later, would there be any objection to my corroborating and adding the gist of hi_pedlers comments in an edit to "in Hinduism?"

I would appreciate comments and guidance--I'm not a seasoned wiki editor. 67.9.145.74 (talk) 18:07, 17 April 2008 (UTC)erc

If someone is inspired to add to the article and work with Hindu usage and citations, they are more than welcome. I don't know enough about the Hindu usage personally. I also don't know much about the term mandala and if it's used to describe native american and other symbols. But if you want to do the research and refute or cite the content here you're more than welcome. - Owlmonkey (talk) 20:12, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I could've sworn that I've read somewhere that a mandala, in the classic sense, was originally a Buddhist invention, not a Hindu one. However, while Buddhism still existed in India, there was a lot of cross-pollenation of ideas and techniques, so it's possible that Hindu devotees may have picked this up from Buddhism. In any case, yeah, the "as mandala" sections also strike me as highly subjective, and peoples' efforts to inject meaning where there is not any explicitly. --Ph0kin (talk) 20:13, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I am pretty convinced that mandalas existed in India quite some time before Buddhism, although I cannot cite sources. I believe that drawings of circles and ritual diagrams at least as predecessors of the 'modern' mandalas were quite common in ancient India, I would guess already from the time of the Vedas etc. By the way, it seems that Buddhists are much more active on Wikipedia then Hindus, but we could certinly use more of their help.rudy (talk) 20:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Do you mean mandala as an artistic form or do you mean as it's used currently? If we're referring just to an artistic form or shape, or about the origins before the current usage, then probably it is prehistoric or from well before the common era. But if we're referring to the specific meaning as they're used currently in Vajrayana or Shaivist Tantra, I'm pretty sure we won't really find such depictions in Buddhism until the common era and perhaps not until as last as the 5th century C.E.? Officially the story will say the forms came from various visions and interventions from divine beings, or from the Buddha himself, though I think scholars have done more specific research into the first textual evidence, albeit without any definitive origin. - Owlmonkey (talk) 23:38, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
No, I don't mean just as artform, but more like magic diagram, somehow related to religious ritual. Of course you cannot have a tantric mandala as we now understand it before tantra evolved. Problem is that we do not really know when that happened, or even if it was first developed in Buddhism or (pre-) Hinduism. Myth and history are very hard to separate in religious traditions some 2,000 years ago. However, th Buddha certainly did not live in a spiritual vacuum; quite the opposite was true. This is what makes me doubt that Buddhism really invented many new things - within Indian culture of the time is was little more then a marginal group until king Ashoka converted to it around 250 BCE. But long before the life of the Buddha, extensive rituals and pudjas were known in India that often remind me of rituals still found today in tantric practices, such as fire-pujas etc. rudy (talk) 20:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree the forms are most likely borrowed. My personal take on Buddhist ritual generally is that it's simply appropriated and reinterpreted with a different viewpoint — used instead for the cultivation of non-self and the way of abiding — but as long as the form can be put to that use it wasn't rejected. But I'm not sure how wide a scope this article should have. It's not that mandala includes any form of sacred geometry probably, but some of the statements in the article currently seem to conflate the terms. Any ideas on what distinction should be drawn to treat mandala distinctly from sacred geometry generally? Owlmonkey (talk) 04:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

External links criteria

So I'm wondering what kind of external links people think are really appropriate for this article. I just removed the link added by "iamcredible" as not meeting the WP:EL guidelines generally, but what of the other links? Are any of them really worth mentioning? The Kalachakra net article is just another article on what they are, but i'm not sure they would meet the requirement to use as a citation source as reliable, though some of their pages cite sources. The two wolfram examples relate to mandala as a shape but we still don't have a citation for that usage. I'm inclined to remove them all, any objections? - Owlmonkey (talk) 22:14, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I really like this link: http://www.girlsgotech.org/mandala.asp You can create your own mandala here. It's quite simplistic but gives you the idea. Maybe we need a WikiHow on creating your own mandala. (Waiholawoman (talk) 00:07, 3 March 2009 (UTC))


The page is messed up

At the bottom of the page the links sidebar is broken (I'm using Chrome). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.12.197 (talk) 15:33, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

NPOV?

"The process of creating a mandala can be a reflective journey of meditation that accesses the deeper truer part of oneself."

Eidetic phenomena

If anyone finds a reference to mandalas being a visual phenomenon eg seen in trance states across cultures, I think the page would benefit from this. I would add the section but I haven't found a reference. --Totorotroll (talk) 15:07, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm concerned about the definition of mandala, perhaps as part of that we could discuss the differences of usage more as part of that. mandala as a sanskrit term has a particular usage and context, but it's becoming used for a wider set of meanings it seems over time. - Owlmonkey (talk) 17:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Socalled Linkspam

-- 88.75.70.184 (talk) 14:34, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

They'd make good citations. I'm not sure what constitutes a good EL for this page, perhaps an online archive of example mandalas? something that links to resources more than explanations perhaps? just thinking out loud. - Owlmonkey (talk) 17:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Mandalas in Judaism - No Connection.

Removed: In Judaism In the Zohar is written, “There exists no circle in the world which is not made from within a single point which is located in the center…and this point, which is located in the center, receives all the light, illuminates the body, and all is enlightened.”[1] The Star of David symbol is a common motif found in mandalas.

The quote from the Zohar is not in reference to Mandalas, or any spiritual meditation in any way. The fact that a Hexagram is a motif has nothing to do with Judaism; it's connection to Judaism is modern and tenuous at best anyways. Davidmanheim (talk) 16:03, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Mandala and C.G. Jung

Thanks for a nice article on Mandalas. I think a section on Carl Jung and his work with Mandalas would be appropriate. It is pretty well documented that he was largely responsible for introducing Mandalas to the West or at least for giving them prominence. His RED BOOK (LIBER NOVUS) is full of his personal work with Mandalas (over a period of 16 years) and has just been published for the first time. I would be happy to write a small article for inclusion here if nobody wants to take a stab at it. Should I post it here first or go ahead and edit the article? Please advise. We could keep it a separate section. Any thoughts?Riwo (talk) 20:53, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Boardgame mandalas

Could somebody please review the following article of mine to see if it qualifies in the 'external links' section, and please insert it there. http://home7.swipnet.se/~w-73784/boardgam1.htm Matswin (talk) 07:47, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Removing "Mandalas in Space" picture

I am removing this picture from this article. The round glows in questions are an artifact of the image capture, and thus are irrelevant. Ratagonia (talk) 23:35, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Christianity and Hindu scriptures

Cowen is talking about the 10,000 year old vedic religion and a mere 2000 year old christianity. The sri yantra and Mandala in the off shoot of Vedic culture( Buddhisim) are similar. Christianity which bases on 3000 year Judiasim DOES NOT HAVE THE PHILOSOPHICAL THOUGHT OF TANTRIC VEDIC TOOLS AS YANTRA. Christianity is built on Judiasim and wants a good solid base as it seems in its desperate efforts to hold on - the new avenue is increasingly recognized as Vedic culture that is popularly called by others as Hinduisim. 

            Cowen is requested to bring in evidence based on his statement and the veracity needs to  be checked before putting it on reliable sources as Wikipedia.

Viju Vijaysadan MD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.81.125.26 (talk) 04:05, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Tendai,Zen and Shingon buddhism

Tendai,Zen and Shingon buddhism isnt mentioned and they all use mandalas slightly diffrent from each other so they should be mentioned in this article also i have never seen a hindu use a mandala in some hindu yoga a yantra is used but i have never seen a mandala being used by a hindu. Now there is a problem as always when we talk about symbols and their origins so accurate dates their uses and which person who brought them to each specific country is a important fact which should be included and mentioned in the article for example the japanese mandala section could be written something like this: Japanese Mandara = Mandala scrolls and paintings became popular in Japan in the 9th century onward with the growth of the Shingon 真言 and Tendai 天台 sects of Esoteric Buddhism (Jp. = Mikkyō 密教; Skt. = Vajrayana), which arose in part as a reaction against the power and wealth of court-sponsored Buddhism. The founders of Esoteric Buddhism in Japan were the monks Kūkai 空海 (774 - 835 AD) and Saichō 最澄 (767 - 822 AD). Kūkai, aka Kōbō Daishi 弘法大師 (his posthumous name), founded the Shingon Sect of Esoteric Buddhism, while Saichō founded the Tendai Sect. Both traveled to China to study and learn the esoteric secrets, and both returned to Japan with numerous artworks and sutras to help spread the teachings. Yet, the oldest surviving color mandala in Japan is thought to be a copy of the Ryōkai Mandara (from China) which was brought to Japan in 859 AD by the Tendai priest Enchin 円珍 (814-891). Most scholarship to date describes the mandala as functioning as a powerful aid in meditation, concentration, and "inner visualization" exercises among Japan's esoteric practitioners.So now we have the dates, the names of who brought the object and where they brought it from in this case china and what the objects was used for in the japanese tradition,It does not however cover the origins of the mandala in India nor its rise to great prominence among the Esoteric (Tantric) sects of Tibet and China from the 6th century onward. Two Japanese holy men introduced mandala artwork to Japan in the early 9th century. The two, Saichō 最澄 (Saicho, 766-822) and Kūkai 空海 (Kukai; 774-835), returned to Japan at slightly different times from study missions in China, laden with Buddhist texts, relics, and artwork. Both went on to found (respectively) Japan’s Tendai 天台 and Shingon 真言 sects of Esoteric Buddhism (Jp. = Mikkyō 密教). The subsequent history of these two sects is intimately connected to the mandala, an artform that grew profusely in the rich soil of Tendai and Shingon beliefs and even today continues to underpin and animate the iconography and philosophies of Japan’s Esoteric (Tantric, Vajrayana) traditions. Both sects were likewise instrumental in introducing multi-headed and multi-armed Tantric deities to the Japanese pantheon of gods and in fueling the growth of indigenous Japanese art.Now this was the origin of the japanese mandalas however buddhist mandalas are also the subject of Richard willhelms and Carl Jungs book the secret of the golden flower written in 1931 which could be seen as a introduction to the west.



--212.181.199.36 (talk) 00:45, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Great chain of being (contrasting cosmology)

Great chain of being is a contrasting cosmology that should be mentioned in the lede, but meanwhile, I added it to See also. --Pawyilee (talk) 14:33, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

CITATION NEEDED

In the Hinduism section, sub section Yantras, first paragraph, someone added a citation needed tag incorrectly, it shows the date that the tag was added. I'd removed the date, but I don't know enough to fix it. thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.230.167.170 (talk) 16:02, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

This section seems to be very confusing - it goes straight into a discussion of yantra, thought the topic is mandala, with no explanation of the link between the two concepts. Tamsinhaggis (talk) 13:57, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Misleading text in 'Western psychological interpretations'

There are some statements in this section that I believe follow from Jung's philosophy or other sources, but the way they are presented could be interpreted as being factual statements themselves.

In particular, Paragraph 1, Line 3: 'The circle drawings reflected his inner state at that moment.' (interpretation of Jung's philosophy) Paragraph 2: 'Jung recognized that the urge to make mandalas emerges during moments of intense personal growth. Their appearance indicates a profound re-balancing process is underway in the psyche. The result of the process is a more complex and better integrated personality.' (interpretation of Jung's philosophy) Paragraph 3: 'Creating mandalas helps stabilize, integrate, and re-order inner life.' (interpretation of source [24]'s philosophy)

Paragraph 4 presents a good example of how I believe the article should be written.

Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:602:8600:C4D:7502:5C17:7DC6:EA5A (talk) 01:08, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

File:Manjuvajramandala con 43 divinità - Unknown - Google Cultural Institute.jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Manjuvajramandala con 43 divinità - Unknown - Google Cultural Institute.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on October 9, 2016. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2016-10-09. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:33, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Mandala
A Tibetan manjuvajramandala with 43 deities, measuring 71 by 85 centimetres (28 in × 33 in) and held at the Museo d'Arte Orientale.

Such mandalas are spiritual and ritual symbols in Indian religions, representing the universe. Most mandalas consist of a square with four gates containing a circle with a center point and exhibit radial balance. Each gate is generally shaped like a T. Mandalas may be employed for focusing attention of practitioners and adepts, as a spiritual guidance tool, for establishing a sacred space, and as an aid to meditation and trance induction.Thangka: Unknown

Archive – More featured pictures...


External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Mandala. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:11, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Vajrayana

Lizfilardi, I think the content you added to the art section would better fit into the existing Vajrayana section and the Montmeru subsection. Please see also WP:SANDWICH. JimRenge (talk) 22:19, 19 November 2017 (UTC) 

JimRenge, Hello! Thanks for your suggestions. I moved the two examples up to the sections that you recommended. I moved the images to the gallery section. I find the "in art" section a little puzzling since there are so many references to art throughout the page. Perhaps this section is reserved for contemporary art? If so, it might be good to specify that. Thanks for your help! Lizfilardi (talk) 23:49, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:06, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

"Recognized"

"Jung recognized that the urge to make mandalas emerges during moments of intense personal growth."

'recognised' implies truth. Jung belived, claimed, or stated might be better. 203.13.3.90 (talk) 23:29, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

  1. ^ Tishbi, Vol.1:247
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mandala/Archive_1&oldid=1198574981"