Talk:Marie Sophie Hingst/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Kusma (talk · contribs) 21:49, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Will take this one (can read the German sources), comments to follow over the next few days. Who knows, maybe I will even find another hook for your DYK nom :) —Kusma (talk) 21:49, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Kusma! I've had everything looked over by native speaker friends, but feel free to tell me if I still got any titles or quotes mistranslated or anything misrepresented -- it's great to have as many eyes as possible on it. Looking forward to your comments in general. Vaticidalprophet 22:05, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Only managed half of the article so far, got distracted by too much reading of sources and my own research. Pretty happy so far, only minor comments and totally optional suggestions. Need sleep now. —Kusma (talk) 22:24, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Content and prose review

Going through section by section, lead at the end. I'm doing my own research as I go along, you are free to ignore that.

• Early life: Did Hingst invent her Jewish background before she started university? Can we have her real background first and talk about the invented background later? (According to Deutsche Welle (a fine RS) she claimed 22 Holocaust victims among her relatives on September 8, 2013). I think it would make more sense to have birth/family/pre-Dublin studies, then a new paragraph with invented background, moving to Dublin and blogging.
  • Have rearranged a little. Vaticidalprophet 11:53, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
• She apparently went to high school in Dessau, more than 30km from Wittenberg, why omit that? (it is in Doerry's article).

  Now you state she grew up in Dessau, which isn't what the sources tell us. She may have commuted to Dessau or moved closer to there around age 15 -- all we know is the sources say she was raised in Lutherstadt Wittenberg and graduated from high school in Dessau.

  • ...oh yeah, whoops. Hm. I'm not entirely sure how to handle this, actually. Will play with it for a little, because yeah, that's an oddly specific distance for a high school. Vaticidalprophet 11:53, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

  Moved this into the sentence about her educational history more broadly, and specified that she attended high school in Dessau without specifying her background any more than implied by sources. Vaticidalprophet 11:55, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

• You are careful not to claim she finished her PhD, but it appears she did. If you want a secondary source claiming it, Doerry and Schneider and Ofrath all say so.
  • Have added as one of the earlier changes. Vaticidalprophet 11:53, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
• Link Die Goldenen Blogger? (She beat Übermedien and Raul Krauthausen to the prize, not bad) If you want something more positive that she did, she wrote daily postcards to Deniz Yücel while he was in jail in Turkey. Unfortunately his article about her is paywalled :(
  • Added an interwiki link. Vaticidalprophet 11:53, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
• If you care for primary sources, here is "Sophie Roznblatt"'s article (not on the ZEIT website anymore, they took it down and apologised.
• "She was a former employee of the Selma Stern Center". I think this reads better without "former"; better say something like "for some time before [year], she was employed by the Selma Stern Center".

  This still needs looking at.

  • I'm not entirely sure what to do about this part. "For some time before 2019" would be...technically accurate but overspecific? I'll change it to that for now, but I don't quite like either phrasing. Vaticidalprophet 11:53, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

  Have changed to this. Vaticidalprophet 11:54, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

• "art history as a sandwich", hmm, more the thing ON the sandwich, but it is hard to convey this for an audience from a less bread-crazy culture. I would expect an English version to be something like "art history on toast" instead of the more literal "art history as sandwich topping".

  Can we go for "art history on a sandwich"? "toast" really sounds like something fairly bare, not like the elaborate things presented in the book. The Twitter feed has "Art history through bread toppings".

  • Yeah, I'll change back the 'sandwich' part and phrase it as 'on'. It's a little tricky in the enwiki context, because English speakers don't tend to think of open-faced sandwiches. Vaticidalprophet 11:53, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

• Der Spiegel outing: "referencing a case where Der Spiegel had themselves been taken in by a fraudulent journalist the preceding year" I haven't checked the source, but I assume this is about Relotius; why not mention his name here (you do so later)?
• " and worried he may be" shouldn't it be "and worried he might be"?
• Death and aftermath: "Doerry commented to The Irish Times under the promise his statements would not be published" can you use something other than "commented" here? it sounds odd.
• "In the weeks after her death, Scally published an article for The Irish Times " did he really publish it over several weeks?
• Not totally convinced all of the redlinked people are notable
• Identity: I learned a new meaning of "cachet".
• Lead: "a German-Irish historian and blogger" any evidence for Irish citizenship? not mentioned in body
• Can you say "a sexologist to refugees"? ("for" better than "to" here? I am not a native speaker of English so sometimes wrong.)

  Perhaps "sex educator" would work better; she wasn't claiming to do theoretical research, but to teach about practicalities.

• "and worked with Jewish communities across Europe" is not an award or recognition.
• Can you strip someone of recognition? It sounds a bit strange.

Overall, nice work. Not too much to complain about. Spotchecks to follow. —Kusma (talk) 22:24, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

• See above for additional comments. If I didn't add comments, I am either happy with your action or accept your inaction. —Kusma (talk) 08:18, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

General comments and GA criteria

• Image licensing is fine. Non-free image is acceptable.
• Prose issues see above. Reads neutral to me, and there are no stability issues.
• Broadness: OK I think. For "comprehensive", I'd like to know more about her blog and her book.
• Referencing is consistently layouted and mostly from quality newspapers and magazines, reasonable sources for the topic.
• Spot checks:
  • 7 checks out
  • 8 checks out. But it is a news agency text from dpa, so "staff writer" is slightly misleading as the writer was not from DIE ZEIT.
  • 13 checks out. Title translation might be better as "Blogger puts art on bread" or more literally "Blogger brings art onto bread" but yours is OK
  • 18 checks out, but it would be nice to explain that "University Times" is a student newspaper when you mention it.
  • 26 checks out.

Nothing major, quite a nice article on a sensitive topic, well done. —Kusma (talk) 22:37, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your review! Most suggestions have been done here. The nationality thing is tricky -- she didn't get citizenship as far as I can tell, but she was living and working in Dublin for a very large chunk of her adult life, and it's clear from the way the sources describe it that she planned to live there indefinitely. Do you have suggestions on how to put it? Vaticidalprophet 01:38, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

My own identity is "a German mathematician living in England" or "an England-based German mathematician", and while I have lived here for quite some time and plan to continue living here indefinitely, I would not describe myself as "German-British" or something unless I acquire citizenship at some point. Anything of the type "a German historian and blogger living in Ireland" or "an Ireland-based German blogger and impostor" would be an improvement. I will look through your other changes and see whether I think anything more needs doing. —Kusma (talk) 08:06, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

I think I have most of these now, Kusma :) Am finally in a position to edit regularly-enough again. The redlinks are a little tricky -- I tend to redlink prolifically. I'll probably look back over post-GAN pre-FAC at them and see if there's anyone who's especially non-notable. Vaticidalprophet 11:57, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

@Vaticidalprophet, I think you have enough of them now for GA :) As I said, I would prefer "sex educator" to "sexologist" in the lead, but do that as you please. —Kusma (talk) 16:57, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.