Talk:Mass rock

Ireland Low‑importance

	Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Catholicism Low‑importance

Mass rock is within the scope of WikiProject Catholicism, an attempt to better organize and improve the quality of information in articles related to the Catholic Church. For more information, visit the project page.CatholicismWikipedia:WikiProject CatholicismTemplate:WikiProject CatholicismCatholicism articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Catholicism task list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : see Draft articles
Assess : see Category:Unassessed Catholicism articles; Category:Unknown-importance Catholicism articles
Cleanup : Blessed Virgin Mary (see the talk page)
Collaborate : Invitation template needed, see Category:WikiProject invitation templates
Copyedit : Cuthbert Tunstall
Expand : Angelus; Roman Catholicism in Kosovo; Bishop Adolph John Paschang; Cum sæpe accidere; Altar Society; American Board of Catholic Missions; Bernard Häring
NPOV : Americanism (heresy); Ensoulment
Photo : see Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of Catholicism
Stubs : see Category:Stub-Class Catholicism articles; Category:Catholic Church stubs
Update : Peer review; John Aloysius Maguire
Verify : Archdiocese of Glasgow; Archbishop of Westminster; Bishop; Saint Mungo; Sanctification; Westminster Cathedral
Other : Watch recent changes for Catholicism articles

Content of unclear relevance to titular subject[edit]

In a recent series of edits, "legacy" sub-sections were added to the sections which deal with Mass rocks (and Mass stones) in "Scotland" and "Ireland".

In the "Scotland > Legacy" section, we now have text which discusses the arrest, hanging and canonisation of John Ogilvie. However, there is nothing to suggest that Ogilvie was arrested at a Mass stone(?) Or was otherwise connected to activities at Mass stones. According to the linked article, he was saying Mass at houses (either private houses or Mass houses) in Glasgow. What is the connection to Mass rocks/stones?

This paragraph is followed by a list of other beatified people (Douglas, Gibson, Ingram), who also don't appear to have been captured at (or for preaching at) Mass rocks/stones? And we have a further paragraph about Alexander Cameron, which also doesn't draw any connection with the titular subject. At all.

What is this content doing here? How is this not a WP:COATRACK for content that, if needed, would be much better covered in Catholic Church in Scotland#History or Forty Martyrs of England and Wales or similar?

(Note: I removed similar text from the "Ireland > Legacy" section. On the basis that it was completely uncited and with no apparent connection to the titular subject). Guliolopez (talk) 11:53, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bump. Any thoughts on the above? If not, I'll likely address by summarising or removing the text which is of unclear relevance to titular subject (Mass rocks/Mass stones/Mass houses). Guliolopez (talk) 18:17, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please go ahead with removal. Ceoil (talk) 19:08, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Not having heard any other thoughts (other than support for summary/removal) and well over a week having passed, I've removed some of the unsupported/unrelated text. As above, if needed, the Catholic Church in Scotland#History or Forty Martyrs of England and Wales or Penal laws (Ireland) or Penal law (British) or Anti-Catholicism in the United Kingdom or Recusancy or Priest hunter (or other related articles) could be cross-linked from the related sections. And examples of religious suppression/etc covered generally in those articles. Otherwise, per WP:SS and WP:CFORK and WP:COATRACK, this article would ideally focus on the titular topic (Mass rocks/stones) and not become a "catch all" article for everything and anything to with religious suppression in the period. Guliolopez (talk) 11:54, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(article creator here), I 'd go further here and reduce parts of the "Later use" and "folklore" sections. And uncited sentences such as "Catholic worship, however, was soon to return to the Mass rocks due to the Exclusion Crisis and the anti-Catholic show trials masterminded by Lord Shaftesbury and Titus Oates." Why the hell is Covid 19 mentioned. Ceoil (talk) 21:20, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Thanks for input. In terms of:

Folklore. Personally I think this section could do with a review. Even after (yet again) moving the (demonstrably historically inaccurate) folktale about a priest being beheaded at a Mass rock as late as 1829, I think the distinction between fact and "story" remains unclear. And "stories" given a little UNDUE weight.
COVID. As it happens, I think a short mention of the proposed 21st century use of Mass rocks (as a response to restrictions on indoor gatherings, social distancing and limits on church numbers) probably does warrant at least a sentence. Not least as supported by refs. And, at least, verifiably connected/relevant to the titular subject.

Cheers. Guliolopez (talk) 21:40, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]