Talk:Metatron's Cube

This article was nominated for deletion on 5 November 2015. The result of the discussion was redirect to Flower of Life (geometry).

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Comments[edit]

Metatron's Cube is a important item in Sacred Geometry .

Various articles have direct links to the Metatron's Cube article.

Mateus Zica (talk) 22:38, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Since I have done the simple geometric investigation to prove this article to be accurate, I am working on producing the PNG images I feel will completely support the statements I made in the article. This article will be revised shortly. Luminaux (talk) 21:48, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think the graphic for Metatron's Cube is missing lines. The inner hexagon (i.e. the lines connecting the second level circles) are missing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sleslie23 (talk • contribs) 00:43, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Origin[edit]

Some information on where in occult thought this comes from would be useful. 68.5.169.216 (talk) 23:21, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It really would. This article is in a really sorry state right now. — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 20:02, 8 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious content[edit]

A new editor emailed me about this article and pointed out the "The derivation of Metatron's cube from the "Flower of Life", which the Talmud clearly states was excluded from human experience during the exile from Eden..." sentence, the editor said she had also contacted a rabbi to ask about this and he had no clue either. I don't think we should be claiming that the Talmud "clearly" states something when it's really not that clear and it's completely unsourced. The "Description" section also seems to conflate the topics of Metatron and Metatron's cube, which are two different things. I don't know how to fix this stuff though, so I'm just considering removing the highly dubious content. — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 20:02, 8 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

IMO, it's just a case of bad grammatical construction. As it reads, one is lead to associate Metatron, a character mentioned in the Talmud, with this geometrical figure that has acquired the name "Metatron's Cube" by New Age writers no earlier than 30 years ago. Maintaining that confusion may serve the New Ager's agenda, suggesting an ancient mystical pedigree for the figure, while in fact we should feel compelled to clarify the issue here instead of further propagating the current misrepresentation. Earrach (talk) 03:31, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Geometry[edit]

Platonic solids in 2D orthogonal projection[edit]

I made some images showing each figure in a Flower of Life (geometry) pattern of circles, and made cube vertices green, octahedron vertices blue, and intermediate vertices purple. Tom Ruen (talk) 07:39, 15 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Orthogonal projections on 3-fold symmetry axes
Stellated octahedron {3,3} + {3,3} +	Cube and octahedron {4,3} + {3,4} +	Dodecahedron and cube {5,3} + {3,5} +

Here's the vertices projected onto Metatron's cube, in dual polyhedron configurations (red and green edges), sharing the same outer hexagon vertices.

3D presentation[edit]

Cube and octahedron
Face-centered cubic lattice cell

Metatron's cube in 3-dimensions
As tangent circles	As spheres	As face-diagonal tangent spheres

Here's another representation, visualized as an actual cube, viewed on the diagonal, with 8 corners of the cube as transparent blue spheres, and 6 transparent red spheres on the centers of the 6 faces. The projection center has 2 cube corners, so there are (8+6) 14 spheres in 3D space of this cube. A last copy has larger spheres/circles which might be harder to see.

So the 3D presentation the connection to the cube and octahedron are apparent. The cube vertices are the 8 blue spheres, and the octahedron vertices are the cube face centers. You can also see a relation to the face-centered cubic lattice cell.Tom Ruen (talk) 06:30, 15 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Related 5-dimensional figure[edit]

Metatron's Cube 13 vertices	birectified 5-simplex A5 Coxeter plane (doubled vertices in orange)	birectified 5-simplex A4 Coxeter plane 20 vertices visible

The 5-dimensional birectified 5-simplex seen in projection of the A5 Coxeter plane has its vertices match this geometry exactly, although it is missing some of the edges. It has 20 vertices rather than 13, but the center and first ring have double-vertices, coinciding within the projection. It has a very symmetric Coxeter diagram: . It has 90 edges, 120 triangular faces, made of 30 tetrahedra, and 30 octahedra.

It also represents the intersection of 2 5-simplices (like the 3D tetrahedron as a 3-simplex), in dual configurations ( + ), like the hexagon center of a hexagram in 2D, and the octahedron () center of a tetrahedron star in 3D ( + ).

Also interestingly the birectified 5-simplex has a 10-fold symmetry 2D projection in the A4 coxeter plane.

I wonder if that means anything helpful to the Metatron cube? I've not seen any evidence anyone else has noticed this similarity, but I'll look around. Tom Ruen (talk) 11:04, 13 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]