Talk:Michigan Technological University Winter Carnival

Drinking Culture

The following section is nothing but WP:OR and WP:SYNTH:

A large part of Winter Carnival, a part that draws many students from other schools, is the drinking culture. Many people spend the entire weekend drinking. It is reminiscent of the ancient Roman holiday Saturnalius. During this holiday slaves and masters were equaled, and open drinking, gambling, and fornication were acceptable. While Winter Carnival isn’t all of these things, the drinking culture is very much similar to that of Saturnalia.[1] It is the one time of year that it is encouraged to be intoxicated at any hour of the day.

Until someone finds and cites a source linking Winter Carnival to Saturnalia, this doesn't belong in Wiki. I will continue to revert the return of this information until it is cited, or someone gives a reason for it to stay. Bakkster Man (talk) 20:37, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

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Jan 2022

I am starting to add the themes to Winter Carnivals in the history section 20:55, 6 January 2022 (UTC)CynMTU (talk)

I added quite a few themes to the Michigan Technological University's Winter Carnival article this morning. KayakChickee (talk) 17:05, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Added theme name and link for the year of 1997 --Husky1986 (talk) 20:53, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Need for in-line citations

As this article seems to form the basis for the editathon on 24 January 2022, it would benefit greatly from in-line citations with a minimum of one at the end of each paragraph. Perhaps CynMTU or other editors attached to the MTU library could assist with this. In some cases, a given source may be pertinent to more than one item. If so, it should be repeated as necessary.--Ipigott (talk) 12:43, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

January 2022 Edit-A-Thon Work

Created [stand alone list for Winter Carnival themes and logos]
CynMTU (talk) 19:07, 28 January 2022 (UTC) Started embedded table for queens

Proposed merge of List of Michigan Techological University Winter Carnival Themes into Michigan Technological University's Winter Carnival

No need for a standalone list PamD 12:13, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

@PamD: Thanks, there are 100 years of winter carnivals at Michigan Tech; it will be too long for the main article. We are working on this today at our edit-a-thon and linking to it. Stay tuned! CynMTU (talk) 13:13, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm sure it's a splendid event, but even if as the one obvious WP:RS says it's "the largest annual winter celebration on any campus in the country", is it really of anything beyond local interest? The sources, even for the main article, let alone this list, seem mostly to be internal. PamD 16:53, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

The carnival might be notable enough for an article. The content here now seems to fall short of WP:TONE (and definitely WP:RS). I don't think a comprehensive list of themes is an appropriate level of detail for an encyclopedia. How about finding some secondary refs that highlight a few particular ones, or specific sculptures. Many of the images in the massive gallery of buttons fails license/copyright policy. DMacks (talk) 08:04, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@CynMTU: It might be useful to print out the published-in-US section of c:COM:HIRTLE so edit-a-thon participants will be able to learn what is/isn't allowed as far as uploading archival images. DMacks (talk) 08:09, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@PamD:@Dmacks: Thank you both for the feedback. I'm the Wikipedian in Residence for Michigan Technological University, and as part of my role I am working with Michigan Technological University Archives and Copper Country Historical Collections on this project. The archives owns the copyright for these images, as cited in Wikicommons. Michigan Tech student are working on improving the article for the next couple of weeks. They are all very new to editing, and are just getting the hang of things. I will be in the main article and the list in the next few days to fix up a few things. Stay tuned. CynMTU (talk) 18:29, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Sounds like a neat project! How was the library able to identify and contact the (I assume) students who drew the original art for so many buttons and the students/others who constructed some snow sculptures? DMacks (talk) 19:02, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

@Dmacks: There is a logo design contest each year and as part of the submission, the creator grants the copyright to the university. And the Michigan Technological University Archives and Copper Country Historical Collections grants them Creative Commons Attribute Sharealike 4.0. Meanwhile, take a look at how I updated the main article with a link now to the standalone list. I'll get the students working on the prose of the article in the coming days. Thanks for your interest!

Great to hear of the careful license-tracking. The best way to have that all tracked and verified on wikipedia and commons is to send an email to VRT that confirms what you said here and identifies the scope of the images (for example, "all buttons of the MTU Carnival" or "all images traced/sourced to [some archive/library collection]"). Then anyone can upload from those collections and won't have to re-confirm each one as being specifically authorized. I think several have already been deleted from commons, but it's trivial to un-delete them all once there's a VRT ticket-number. DMacks (talk) 02:39, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for realizing that my user-name is plural:) DMacks (talk) 02:39, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

@Dmacks: Darn it! I was planning on doing the VRT process today. I hope I can figure out how to undelete them! I may have to beg for some help. Lemme do some looking. CynMTU (talk) 16:04, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Let me know when you have a VRT ticket#. Commons is always strict and sometimes efficient at detecting things that are uncertain or that have appearance of an unverified third-party license claim. Most users don't have an undelete button on wiki, so the best you can do yourself is include the VRT# tag on any files that have not been deleted, and make sure to include it on any new uploads. I do have the undelete button, and it's not hard to conjure up a list of already-deleted files that were ever in-use on the list page and/or that were ever uploaded by a specific set of usernames. DMacks (talk) 16:24, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

@Dmacks: I have 2 tickets for all the ones I could find that were left: Ticket#2022020110009122 and Ticket#2022020110008409 I could round up a list of usernames if I have to....let me know and thanks again! Can I remove the tag regarding missing evidence since I have done this? Here is my example: 1987 logo CynMTU (talk) 18:56, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

If you add a VRT-pending tag, you can remove a missing-evidence tag. I undeleted 15 files on commons, replacing the deletion tag with the VRT-pending tag, and am in contact with another admin there about undeleting several others. DMacks (talk) 19:44, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

LFigured out why I wasn't getting your pings...usernames are case-sensitive and mine has a capital "M". DMacks (talk) 19:45, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Think I got them all. DMacks (talk) 00:18, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

@DMacks: Thank you so much! And I am sorry I have been mistyping your username. I appreciate the help.

@PamD: @DMacks: Thank you both so much for your help in improving our Winter Carnival article. If you have any further feedback, please let me know. The students are working hard on both the list and the original article to improve tone and sources and I plan on removing the tag about the proposed merge of the themes list on Wed. 9-Feb-2022 (the beginning of the 100th winter carnival). They will be continuing to work on it over the coming week. CynMTU (talk) 14:32, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

@CynMTU and DMacks: I must agree with PamD that there is no encyclopedic benefit to having a separate list for the themes. In particular, the names of the themes don't strike me as encyclopedic detail; I see some benefit to showing a few of the logos, however. Moreover, the topic doesn't (as far as I can tell) meet the notability guideline for lists, which says that the topic (Winter Carnival themes) needs to be notable as a group of things discussed together. Would you be agreeable to getting rid of the list and selecting some of the logos to feature in a gallery here? —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 14:34, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

@Compassionate727 This logo project was a big part of the 100th Anniversary of Michigan Tech's Winter Carnival. Lots of students and alumni worked on it and it was the focus of an edit-a-thon on behalf of our Michigan Tech Archives. I could consider merging the list into the Winter Carnival Article, but given the work the students did, I want to keep it in it's entirety. Your thoughts? CynMTU (talk) 13:41, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm not seeing notability of "themes of..." as a discrete topic. Thanks for finding the speicifc guideline, Compassionate727! A few select examples and a button or two could easily be worked into the article about the carnival itself, as part of a description of those aspects of the carnival. I'm currently ambivalent about including the whole list of themes in the main carnival article. But I'm opposed to including the full set of buttons-images in a gallery, as it doesn't seem to rise to the level of the image-use standard for that here in the article about the carnival as a whole. They are in a Commons category, so an annotated link to that commons-cat would suffice to have the buttons be visible for those who wanted to see but (again) avoid making WP article-space give UNDUE to this aspect. With some clever naming and sub-categorizing, all the buttons images could appear in year-order. Amount of effort and editor involvement is not part of our article-content guidelines. Looking back, I see Pam and I had already mentioned the content concerns even back before/during this project. DMacks (talk) 16:08, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

@DMacks Great idea for the commons category and clever naming and sub-cat, all the buttons images could appear in year order. I'll take a look at that soon and see how it might be done. The most important thing is that the images are findable for people, and the stand alone list provided the students with their opportunity to learn how to edit. CynMTU (talk) 11:48, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Definitely no objection to these sorts of projects as a start and to help get others involved. Let me know if you need help on commons...there are some tools that can help with bulk-actions, and some non-obvious ways to get things to "look" a certain way for readers. DMacks (talk) 16:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)