Talk:Mike Myers/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Whiskey Leg
The first sentence of this article was "Mike Myers has a fake leg that he keeps whiskey in and his family calls him whiskey leg."
I'm guessing that not true, so I'm removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.211.23.31 (talk) 02:32, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
Citizenship
I'm assuming that A Myers has dual British/Canadian citizenship, since he is so frequently described as Canadian and was born in Canada, and several sources say he carries a British passport. I've edited the article to say that (and correct the birthplace!) but I can't find any sources that say explicitly that he has dual citizenship. However being born in Canada would grant him Canadian citizenship automatically, so unless he renounced it when he came of age I would expect it to still be valid. Has anyone any more sources? DJ Clayworth 18:44, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
- Wouldn't the fact that his parents were born in Britain automatically grant him British citizenship?
- If they were British citizens, yes. It would give him dual nationality.Fatswaller (talk) 20:57, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
- he is not known to be a U.S. citizen: Anyone want to do some digging around for info on this? He was married to an American for 12 years, and lived in the US for quite a long time; it seems unlikely to me that he wouldn't have American citizenship, unless there are restrictions on how many countries a person can belong to. --Tellybelly 03:00, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
- Citizenship is not granted automatically upon marriage or upon its lasting the required number of years; one has to file. Some people choose not to file despite qualifying. Nonetheless, I agree it should be researched. Lawikitejana 14:53, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- The Kanye West article mentions that Mike Myers once joked about having his American citizenship revoked, and having to fall back on his Canadian one. Just a joke, but may be valid info. Bueller 007 12:33, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
- Citizenship is not granted automatically upon marriage or upon its lasting the required number of years; one has to file. Some people choose not to file despite qualifying. Nonetheless, I agree it should be researched. Lawikitejana 14:53, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- he is not known to be a U.S. citizen: Anyone want to do some digging around for info on this? He was married to an American for 12 years, and lived in the US for quite a long time; it seems unlikely to me that he wouldn't have American citizenship, unless there are restrictions on how many countries a person can belong to. --Tellybelly 03:00, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
He does have dual citizenship. Therefore by Wikipedia's standards, he is British - Canadian. Norum 14:02, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Myers states himself on the Marc Maron WTF podcast, 27th July 2014, that he is a British, Canadian AND U.S. Citizen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.61.95 (talk) 09:26, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
Vanity Fair 1999 controversy
http://www.saja.org/vf.html <-- Shall some mention of this be included perhaps? --Rebroad 15:53, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
cited - Mr. Mullins —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.1.206.187 (talk) 18:01, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Myers thinking about making a War Movie
So I've heard many times that Mike Myers is really keen on working on a war movie of the type Saving Private Ryan/Bridge too far/Longest Day, of the Canadian Landing at Dieppe (or Juno... i forget). Wouldn't it be good to include it into here? paat 23:01, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
well i dont think so becuase that has not been told to the public in the first person who knows if your infor mation is incorrect???
At the Upright Citizens Brigade Theatre in NYC in summer 2005, he was interviewed as at the theatre's monthly show, Inside Joke, where he stated that he had been interested in doing a project set in WWII, as he's always been fascinated by the period and his mother's stories of working for the Royal Air Force where she helped move pieces on scale battle models and maps.
Ancestry
FYI Ancestry does NOT have an "o" in it.
Early life Both of Myers' parents are from Liverpool, England, and Myers has British as well as Canadian citizenship. His ethnic heritage is English, Scottish and Irish, and he has stated that he considers himself to be British although he is also very vocal about being a proud Canadian.
I thought he was partially Jewish also? Considering Myers is a pretty common anglo-adapted Jewish Surname?
[Novalis] Yes, that is true, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Myers_(judge) sometimes in Germany/Deutschland,too. But Meyer/Maier/Meier...are NOT everytimes jewish names, There are many "Meier" "Meyers" "Maier" in Germany, like "Smith" and "Jones" in the USA. But I had think, that his Ancestory were German, because I never hear, that the name "Meyers/Myer"is britisch. you can see: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meier If you an protector for the (manors)aristocracy (or someone like this), in early middle century, you can have gotten this name in Germany/Austria etc. or: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyer
- No, he isn't Jewish, he's said that several times. "Myers" can be a Scottish/Anglo name, too. Mad Jack 03:06, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
I removed the phrase "...and he has stated that he considers himself to be British [citation needed] although he is also very vocal about being a proud Canadian" from the Background section. It has been tagged for some time as lacking a citation. If someone can find a source, we can move it back into the article. --Skeezix1000 12:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Wheither he likes it or not, he's not British. It doesn't matter what he conciders his ancestory, if he wasn't born or raised there, he's not British.
- Whether you like it or not, if both his parents are British and he holds a British passport (and one can find quotes of Myers referring to a UK passport), he's as British as anyone born in the UK. Based on my experience of Wikipedia over the years, I'm willing to bet a not insubstantial sum of money that you spend a lot of time adding "Irish" to articles. Those who argue against connections and/or links to "British", "English" etc usually do. 86.7.211.128 (talk) 00:47, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Were his parents born in Britian? Because if so then he most likely has dual nationality. ~ H.D.E.
- British is ethnicity as well as citizenship. Mike Myers is 100% British. It doesn't matter if he was born there or not. One doesn't say to someone that they lose all ties with the land where their ancestors have lived for thousands of years simply because they weren't born there. Would you tell a native American born outside of the United States that they were no longer a native American? 220.253.165.119 (talk) 15:35, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
- Actually, British is not an ethnicity, but English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh are. Britain is a civic/political union 99.236.245.18 (talk) 01:25, 5 August 2010 (UTC) Sorry English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh are not ethnicities. In the UK there are people of all manner of ethnicity. In Scotland as an example there are people of West Indian, African and Indian heritage. White British IS an ethnicity as recognised by all government documentation. Mike Myer's ethnicity is White British. Sue De Nimes (talk) 07:26, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Fraiser
Is the mention of Fraiser killer"Catchphrases" section really a criticism? It's more of a statement on how annoying it is to have someone constantly repeating the same phrase than a criticism of Myers.--Agent Aquamarine 12:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
See above^ I can see why is would be a criticism of Mike Myers, or more to the point, Austin Powers, because haveing some things, such as those catch-phrases, quoted over and over again can be far more annoying than, say, someone saying "Meedlemeedlemeedle" Over and over again, if you catch me. ~ H.D.E.
- What are "Fraiser killer "Catchphrases""? 86.7.211.128 (talk) 00:50, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Katrina Controversy?
I find this section to be absolutely useless. At best, Myers' mere presence at the incident deserves a Trivia-section mention.
Thoughts? 128.103.14.20 18:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
- Avoid Trivia, it's un-Wikipedic. Barfbagger 08:43, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I have to agree with both of you. It really isn't significant to myers (it barely involves him other than his saying that his citizenship was revoked) and doesnt deserve its own section. However it also shouldnt be in a trivia section. Can anyone think of a way to integrate the information into the article some other way? Glassbreaker5791 00:45, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
- I don't see that there is any information relevant to the article. It's really rather pointless. Unless someone can make a case for its retention, it ought to be chucked. Vilĉjo 21:37, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
But you gotta admit, those glances at West were pretty darn funny. Th900bbepr 05:56, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Catchphrases
Myers takes credit for so many catchphrases it makes one's head spin. While he claims to have popularized "...not!" the same ironic speech can be found in many films from the 40's and 50's. Now Myers is taking credit for inventing "that's what SHE said!" Please be the dam that blockades Myers's high-jacking of our subculture. 76.80.19.161 07:49, 5 May 2007 (UTC) Maynotlast
Not sure the history on either catchphase, but both gained cultural notoriety with the first airings of Wayne's World. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.24.172 (talk) 10:26, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Ethnicity
Myers should be listed as British-Canadian instead of Canadian-British.
Usually when labeling a person; ancestory is listed first, then the primary nationality.
For example, an American of Irish ancestory (even one with derivative Irish citizenship) would be labeled Irish-American, not American-Irish.
72.82.175.2 06:23, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Movies
Myers was also in a movie called So I Married An Axe Murderer. He played himself (Charlie) and his father, and made the movie before doing Austin Powers. It's one of Myers' greatest comedies! Why isn't it mentioned on this page?
Geelin 03:07, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Is there point to the Shrek 5, 6 and 7?
4chan
All the vandalism on this page is caused by 4chan. Not Ebaumsworld, 4chan.org
Ebaums getting credit is pretty much what ebaums is, getting credit for the work of others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.138.244.206 (talk) 09:52, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
British-Canadian or Canadian?
There seems to be a bit of an issue as to whether Myers is described as a Canadian actor, or a British-Canadian actor. While he may have been born a British subject through his parents, Canada did not (as I understand) allow dual-citizenship until 1977. In any event, it isn't up to us editors to be interpreting conflicting citizenship rules, which would be a violation of WP:OR. If we can find a reliable source that states that Myers is also a British subject, then great -- we should revise the article to describe him as a British-Canadian actor. In the meantime, I do not think there is anything wrong with describing him as a Canadian actor of British descent. Skeezix1000 (talk) 21:52, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I fall into the same category as Myers (re Cdn and British citizenship) and although you may theoretically be a British citizen you do essentially have to apply for recognition of it (it's not automatic). Unless someone knows that he did this, then Canadian of British decent is more accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.135.87 (talk) 17:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
I also fall in the same category - as do many in my family, and if you are born in Canada of British parents, you are automatically Canadian and have to apply for British citizenship. I didn't do this until I was an adult, and wouldn't have been recognised as British before that (though definitely of British descent) thus Canadian of British descent is most accurate.
Also - I have relatives who were dual citizens pre 1977. I'm quite sure this was permitted for the UK at least (the UK was a special case for a long time). My father and his brother and parents immigrated in 1957 from the UK to Canada. They did not renounce British Citizenship and became citizens in the 60s. I know my dad said he applied I think after university in order to be eligible for some federal jobs he couldn't apply for as a Brit, and I was born in 1977 and he was definitely a Canadian citizen before then (and had travelled internationally on a Canadian passport).
Myers orientation rumours
New York Daily News yesterday and the blogs today are saying that Myers is gay. I don't personally care as to whether or not he is or whether or not his sexuality gets put in the article but I know Wiki well enough that there's probably going to be revert wars and passionate discussion about this utterly trivial fact so you folks might as well decide now what to do before the drama starts.--72.1.223.3 (talk) 20:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Saturday Night Live
No career info for Saturday Night Live? Redirecting to the SNL page doesn't give much insight as to his personal interaction with SNL. Many other cast members have references to their career with SNL, and being most career starters, I figured it would fit with the rest of the page. Just a thought.
Birth location
The info box states Myers was born in Ontario, but the article states that he was born in Liverpool...which one is right? I'll correct info box to match article...unless anyone else knows better. Darkieboy236 (talk) 23:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
- Someone screwed around with the article. The infobox was correct - he was born in Canada. Skeezix1000 (talk) 20:27, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Dual citizenship
I remember his having dual Canadian and American citizenship.
He even mentioned it in a guest appearence on SNL when K. West was the musical host. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.142.228.249 (talk) 23:27, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Mike Myers Looks like Supreme Court Nominee Elena Kagan
They look exactly the same!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.139.1.68 (talk) 14:41, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Victim of a fake death rumor?
I just came across this clip on YouTube from 2008 that purports to be a tribute to the "recently deceased" Mike Myers: [1] . So does that mean there was a fake death report in 2008? It could also just be a YouTube nutter, but while fake death reports are almost an epidemic on the Internet these days, in 2008 they were still somewhat newsworthy. 68.146.64.9 (talk) 21:36, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Not to be confused with a fictional serial killer?
Is there really a legitimate fear that Mike Myers might be confused with the *fictional* serial killer, Michael Myers? Please... this doesn't warrant a sentence in the 1st paragraph of the article. It should be relegated to a disambiguation box. 128.249.1.194 (talk) 14:27, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
Move?
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 09:03, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
Mike Myers (actor) → Mike Myers –
- The original move was done long ago by somebody that apparently didn't understand primary topic disambiguation. People have tried to just redirect "Mike Myers" to the actor page, but that has been reverted since it is not the right solution. Looking through all the Michael Myers, it is clear that the actor is still the primary topic for the term "Mike Myers". DudeOnTheStreet (talk) 22:31, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
- Transferred from Wikipedia:Requested moves#Current requests. Page Michael Myers lists 7 men called Mike/Michael Myers/similar, and how dominant a meaning is the actor, among these 7, and among actors? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:07, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
- Support: I didn't go through all the traffic stats but as far as I can tell none of the other Mike Myers approach the actor in terms of popularity. –CWenger (^ • @) 08:47, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
- According to http://stats.grok.se/, May 2011 page views were as follows.
- Weak Support - He accounts for just under 70% of the page views related to this dab. Not entirely sure that is a large enough amount to make him the main, but if anyone deserves the main page he does. It is close, IMO.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:10, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for finding those numbers, Tony. The rule of thumb I have heard is a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC should have about an order of magnitude more traffic than the next most-visited page, a threshold not met in this case, unless you treat Michael and Mike separately. So what if we move Mike Myers (actor) to Mike Myers, as suggested, and Michael Myers (Halloween) to Michael Myers. Hatnotes on each could refer to Michael Myers (disambiguation) and perhaps a special mention of the most popular article with the variant name (i.e., Mike Myers (actor) notes Michael Myers (Halloween) and vice versa). –CWenger (^ • @) 20:45, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
- There are some oddities regarding the Mike Myers (actor) and Michael Myers (Halloween character) connection. For some reason, somebody insisted on putting the latter in the lede of the former's article. I'd wager (although no real evidence) that many of those Halloween hits are from people thinking "WTF?" and clicking on the link in the lede of the actor article. I mean, page views are fine, but use Google or ask any few dozen people you know. It's also been pointed out by Tony Sidaway on the talk page for Mike Myers that many of the Wikipedia links are actually for the actor. Ultimately, this is why we have primary topic disambiguation. If people are going to be linking to the actor most of the time, it makes little sense for them to have to type "Mike Myers (actor)" each time, if they knew to do so. In any case, I think distinguishing between "Michael" and "Mike" is a good idea. Anyone typing in "Thomas Cruise", for example, may still be looking for the actor, but the likelihood of searching for the footballer instead has increased. --DudeOnTheStreet (talk) 22:31, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks for finding those numbers, Tony. The rule of thumb I have heard is a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC should have about an order of magnitude more traffic than the next most-visited page, a threshold not met in this case, unless you treat Michael and Mike separately. So what if we move Mike Myers (actor) to Mike Myers, as suggested, and Michael Myers (Halloween) to Michael Myers. Hatnotes on each could refer to Michael Myers (disambiguation) and perhaps a special mention of the most popular article with the variant name (i.e., Mike Myers (actor) notes Michael Myers (Halloween) and vice versa). –CWenger (^ • @) 20:45, 4 June 2011 (UTC)
- Support, clearly the most likely to be called "Mike". Powers T 20:55, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
- Support, clearly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. --Born2cycle (talk) 21:44, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
See also Talk:Mike Myers/old. Andrewa (talk) 09:04, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
2012 movies
Three films were listed in the filmography as "in production" for release in 2012:
- Marvin the Martian
- Bunnicula
- See Me Feel Me: Keith Moon Naked for Your Pleasure
But I couldn't find any evidence that these movies are in production at all, let alone due for release in 2012, so I deleted them. Barsoomian (talk) 03:21, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
Canadian or British-Canadian
There has been continuous edit warring about the description of Mike Myers in the lede of the article, as "Canadian" or "British-Canadian". Barsoomian (talk) 18:53, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Since Myers was born and raised in Canada, he's therefore Canadian unless evidence otherwise is presented. The statement that he has dual citizenship is uncited. Do people actually self-identify as "British-Canadian"? Does Myers? If so, where is it cited? Barsoomian (talk) 05:54, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- The lead is for nationality (place of birth) not for citizenship or ethnicity if its not relevant to the persons notability. See WP:OPENPARAGRAPH... He is both a naturalized American citizen and a British citizen - hes nationality is Canadian by birth before he was famous and got other citizenships. That said it should be noted in the article that he does refer to himself as a Canadian of British decent that holds 3 citizenships. Yes in Canada we have this self identifying term see Canadians#Ethnic ancestry Moxy (talk) 06:09, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- I personally (lifetime Canadian resident) have never heard or seen the term used in any sort of normal life. Welsh-Canadian or Scots-Canadian or Irish-Canadian yes, but never British-Canadian. Note Moxy that the link you give is to data based on the long-form 20% sample data census, which allowed multiple choices (only the top 148% are shown in that table) so it could be just a grab-bag choice on a form rather than an actual term of use. Franamax (talk) 07:11, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- Agree the term is not used often - but it is a choice that many many many Canadians have chosen. Not up to us to say its wrong, as all we can do is regurgitate what is out there. I think we should removed British from the lead or have them all. I have added a ref for his 3 citizenships in the first section. I assume we all agree that citizenship's and nationality are 2 different things. There are many many Canadians that have multiple citizenship's after they have had international success. That said this is a problem that many Canadian articles seem to have - that is there secondary citizenship's are listed in the lead. Michael J. Fox is a great example of Americans talking claim of a famous Canadians just cause he has duel citizenships for work. Moxy (talk) 08:28, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- Where is the proof that describing himself as "British-Canadian" is a choice he made, and that it isn't just some editor's assertion? I haven't seen any cites to that. His family history and citizenship is detailed in later paragraphs, it's a matter of whether it really is so important as to be noted in the first sentence. The cite for "He holds three citizenships, American, British and Canadian", is to a book, has can anyone verify this is in fact what the book (Mike Myers by Paul Harrison, 2005 -- a 48 page illustrated juvenile book, apparently) says? Barsoomian (talk) 08:37, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- Agree no need in the lead ..but it was in that bad ref from before "Off screen, Canadian-born Myers stated he considers himself to be British although he is also very vocal about being a proud Canadian" and is also at IMDb.com, Inc.. Naturalized US Citizen Moxy (talk) 08:53, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- Agree with Moxy. Not only is British-Canadian an odd term, but we should generally shy away from "x-Canadian" terms as they convey a sense of identity that article subjects may or may not share (do we have verifiable sources to show that Myers calls himself "British-Canadian", as opposed to British and/or Canadian?). "Canadian of x descent" is more factual. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:27, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- Agree no need in the lead ..but it was in that bad ref from before "Off screen, Canadian-born Myers stated he considers himself to be British although he is also very vocal about being a proud Canadian" and is also at IMDb.com, Inc.. Naturalized US Citizen Moxy (talk) 08:53, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- Where is the proof that describing himself as "British-Canadian" is a choice he made, and that it isn't just some editor's assertion? I haven't seen any cites to that. His family history and citizenship is detailed in later paragraphs, it's a matter of whether it really is so important as to be noted in the first sentence. The cite for "He holds three citizenships, American, British and Canadian", is to a book, has can anyone verify this is in fact what the book (Mike Myers by Paul Harrison, 2005 -- a 48 page illustrated juvenile book, apparently) says? Barsoomian (talk) 08:37, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- Agree the term is not used often - but it is a choice that many many many Canadians have chosen. Not up to us to say its wrong, as all we can do is regurgitate what is out there. I think we should removed British from the lead or have them all. I have added a ref for his 3 citizenships in the first section. I assume we all agree that citizenship's and nationality are 2 different things. There are many many Canadians that have multiple citizenship's after they have had international success. That said this is a problem that many Canadian articles seem to have - that is there secondary citizenship's are listed in the lead. Michael J. Fox is a great example of Americans talking claim of a famous Canadians just cause he has duel citizenships for work. Moxy (talk) 08:28, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- I personally (lifetime Canadian resident) have never heard or seen the term used in any sort of normal life. Welsh-Canadian or Scots-Canadian or Irish-Canadian yes, but never British-Canadian. Note Moxy that the link you give is to data based on the long-form 20% sample data census, which allowed multiple choices (only the top 148% are shown in that table) so it could be just a grab-bag choice on a form rather than an actual term of use. Franamax (talk) 07:11, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- This has been so many times before and has been settled. Why re open an old case? He's got a dual citizenship and actually considers himself British rather than Canadian. It says so in the link that I provided. @Moxy Maybe you havent heard that term before, but mind you, there is no such term as English, Welsh or Scottish citizenships since those countries are not independednt, but for a part of the United Kingdom. Norum 14:11, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- It certainly wasn't "settled". You just declared that was the case and edited it accordingly, then defended your edits and called anyone who changed it a "vandal". The question is not what is his legal citizenship; that is covered separately. If you can provide a citation where Myers identifies himself as "British-Canadian", that would be convincing. You haven't, and I can't see any RS that does either. Every article I've seen, including the one you cited, says he is simply "Canadian". Not everyone has a need to classify himself primarily by ethnicity. Barsoomian (talk) 15:41, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- Barsoomian could you read the links that I have been provided above pls - as they proven his statement that he calls himself British-Canadian (are they reliable who knows). What we are arguing is if its relevant in the lead. So far all but one believe "British-Canadian" is misleading and should be omitted. No dough hes a Canadian with American and British passports but do we need this in the lead?. No way would we add all the countries Nelson Mandela is an honorary citizen of - we only mention his nationality in passing in the lead and mention the rest later.Moxy (talk) 22:24, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- This brings us back to the Igor Korolev case.... he has a dual citizenship, therefore he is called a Russian - Canadian player (as much as I hate that, because I have considered him to be Russian, not Canadian, all my life). Myers has a dual citizenship and he admits to feel mre British than Canadian. And that is because of his parentaghe, not honourary. On the other hand, look at Jim Belushi. He's got a honourary Albanian citizenship and that is why he is not considered as American-Albanian actor. Norum 03:22, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- "links that .... proven his statement that he calls himself British-Canadian" : Where does he use the words "British-Canadian" when referring to himself? Korolov is irrelevant, he wasn't born in Canada as Myers was. Barsoomian (talk) 03:30, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- For the third time pls read the links above. you keep asking the same thing over and over that was replied to days ago. That seen I think the consensus is that Canadian is best.Moxy (talk) 03:39, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- I have looked, more than three times, and I still can't see the phrase "British-Canadian" at either link (superiorpics or IMDb). In fact the text at superiorpics: "Myers stated he considers himself to be British although he is also very vocal about being a proud Canadian" implies that he identifies his nationality as "Canadian" when it comes down to it. And Googling for the phrase finds nothing except numerous copies from the article here, at least for the first several pages of hits. All of this goes to how he self-identifies ("Canadian"), and it seems that all the uses of "British-Canadian" stem from the edits here. This is just one consideration, but I wanted to clarify it. I do of course concur that "Canadian" is most appropriate for the lede. Barsoomian (talk) 04:20, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- If Myers self-identifies as Canadian, then that's what we should go with IMO. CanuckMy page89 (talk), 11:12, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- He also identifies himself as British. Norum 17:37, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- Mike Myers identifies himself as Canadian, therefor the lead should remain as Canadian. Karl 334 ☞TALK to ME ☜ 18:19, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- He also identifies himself as British. Norum 17:37, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- If Myers self-identifies as Canadian, then that's what we should go with IMO. CanuckMy page89 (talk), 11:12, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- I have looked, more than three times, and I still can't see the phrase "British-Canadian" at either link (superiorpics or IMDb). In fact the text at superiorpics: "Myers stated he considers himself to be British although he is also very vocal about being a proud Canadian" implies that he identifies his nationality as "Canadian" when it comes down to it. And Googling for the phrase finds nothing except numerous copies from the article here, at least for the first several pages of hits. All of this goes to how he self-identifies ("Canadian"), and it seems that all the uses of "British-Canadian" stem from the edits here. This is just one consideration, but I wanted to clarify it. I do of course concur that "Canadian" is most appropriate for the lede. Barsoomian (talk) 04:20, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- For the third time pls read the links above. you keep asking the same thing over and over that was replied to days ago. That seen I think the consensus is that Canadian is best.Moxy (talk) 03:39, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- "links that .... proven his statement that he calls himself British-Canadian" : Where does he use the words "British-Canadian" when referring to himself? Korolov is irrelevant, he wasn't born in Canada as Myers was. Barsoomian (talk) 03:30, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- This brings us back to the Igor Korolev case.... he has a dual citizenship, therefore he is called a Russian - Canadian player (as much as I hate that, because I have considered him to be Russian, not Canadian, all my life). Myers has a dual citizenship and he admits to feel mre British than Canadian. And that is because of his parentaghe, not honourary. On the other hand, look at Jim Belushi. He's got a honourary Albanian citizenship and that is why he is not considered as American-Albanian actor. Norum 03:22, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- Barsoomian could you read the links that I have been provided above pls - as they proven his statement that he calls himself British-Canadian (are they reliable who knows). What we are arguing is if its relevant in the lead. So far all but one believe "British-Canadian" is misleading and should be omitted. No dough hes a Canadian with American and British passports but do we need this in the lead?. No way would we add all the countries Nelson Mandela is an honorary citizen of - we only mention his nationality in passing in the lead and mention the rest later.Moxy (talk) 22:24, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- It certainly wasn't "settled". You just declared that was the case and edited it accordingly, then defended your edits and called anyone who changed it a "vandal". The question is not what is his legal citizenship; that is covered separately. If you can provide a citation where Myers identifies himself as "British-Canadian", that would be convincing. You haven't, and I can't see any RS that does either. Every article I've seen, including the one you cited, says he is simply "Canadian". Not everyone has a need to classify himself primarily by ethnicity. Barsoomian (talk) 15:41, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
- This has been so many times before and has been settled. Why re open an old case? He's got a dual citizenship and actually considers himself British rather than Canadian. It says so in the link that I provided. @Moxy Maybe you havent heard that term before, but mind you, there is no such term as English, Welsh or Scottish citizenships since those countries are not independednt, but for a part of the United Kingdom. Norum 14:11, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
British-CanadianNeutral - "Self-identification" is the standard/test supported by policy here. The "superiorpics" reference offered by Moxy is pretty clear on this subject. Myers identifies as both Canadian and British. The lead should reflect that. Does anyone have anything refutes Moxy's reference? NickCT (talk) 19:03, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- Also, let me point out the article entry for Igor Korolev. I actually know how Barsoomian feels like, because I wsas in the same situation when I was editing that article. I have always considered Korolev to be a Russian player as he was born, grew up and played most of his career in Russia, but because he became a naturalized Canadian, he is now listed as Russian - Canadian, which, to be honest, i find to be absurt. Yet those are Wikipedia's rules. I believe that Myers has more right to be called British-Canadian (parentage and dual citizenship) than Korolev to be called Russian-Canadian (naturalization). Also, Barsoomian, you claim Korolev is irrelevant because he was not born in Canada. On the contrary, those two cases are similar which I just explained. Myers has more right to be called British - Canadian than Korolev to be called Canadian - Russian. Norum 23:01, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- @NickCT - I was the one who provided the link at first. Norum 23:02, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- "The superiorpics reference ... is pretty clear" "Clear??? There is nothing to refute. The superiorpics text (which is of unknown provenance and reliability, being primarily a site that collects photos, and is not a direct quote), does not support Myers identifying as "British-Canadian" SINCE THOSE WORDS ARE NOT USED. And as for Korolov: still irrelevant and not a "similar" case at all. He was born in Russia and became Canadian. Myers was born in Canada and is now and has always been Canadian. He isn't a hyphenated Canadian. Just "Canadian". No one has provided a quote by Myers identifying himself as "British-Canadian", for anyone to infer this is synthesis, and pushing a fairly distasteful line of ethnic categorisation. Myers certainly has the "right" to describe himself as "British-Canadian", but he doesn't and no one has the "right" to insist that he does. Barsoomian (talk) 23:45, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- @Barsoomian...first of all, mind you that one can not have English or Scottish nationality because those countries are not independent, only part of the UK. Also, Myers does identify himself as British and Canadian in one sentence. If you insert hyphen between the two, you get British-Canadian. I dont think I can make this any clearer. And yes, situation with Korolev is in a way similar. He gets called "Russian-Canadian" just because he obtained Canadian citizenship. Myers is "British-Canadian" because of the parentage as his parents are English. Not to mention he also spent some time in England and has a British citizenship. What I am trying to point out is that Myers has more rights to be called "British-Canadian" than Korolev to be called "Russian-Canadian". Norum 00:12, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
- Korolov is STILL irrelevant. And "if you insert hyphen between the two", that is synthesis: "If no reliable source has combined the material in this way, it is original research." Barsoomian (talk) 00:19, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
- Objective observation is what we are looking for from or editors here... Hes a Canadian (we all agree on that as does Mike himself) that calls himself British (we all agree on this aswell and is proven by his passport) and you believe that adding a hyphen is synthesis or original research? Yep going to have to prove that a hyphen is original research to me. Its not a made up conclusion its fact that he uses these two terms to refer to himself. That said the point in mute because the majority dont think his secondary citizenship(s) should be in the lead anyways. The only problem I see is that British-Canadian is misleading as in it does not explain things properly. Hes a Canadian of British decent I dont see British-Canadian as OR at all its just lacking proper definition in this context.Moxy (talk) 16:51, 23 February 2012 (UTC) Moxy (talk) 16:37, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
- Saying that Myers is "British-Canadian" by deducing it from two other statements can be nothing but WP:SYN. Since Myers has evidently never characterised himself as "British-Canadian" we should not decide that for him. That term is not simply an abbreviation for the statements presented to justify it. "British-Canadian" seems to be more like an ethnic label. His statements about feeling British could reflect, say, that Myers feels a part of British culture (as do many in Commonwealth countries), but that isn't the same thing. It's all guesswork and assumptions, and we should not be doing that in an article, especially not a WP:BLP. His citizenship(s) are discussed later in the article, no facts are omitted, only a label that seems to have been invented by some editors and is not in common use.Barsoomian (talk) 17:15, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
- PS: Seeing your addition of "British-Canadian ... lacking proper definition", it seems we have come to the same conclusion, that is exactly what was bothering me. Is it ethnic, cultural, or what? We shouldn't use label that isn't clear. Barsoomian (talk) 17:15, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
- @Barsoomian - If I'm understanding you correctly, you're not arguing that Myers isn't both British and Canadian, but instead, you're saying that the hyphenated term "British-Canadian" is somehow invalid. If this is the case, then I'd make two points; the first is that I have difficultly seeing your POV. "British-Canadian" to me, and I imagine to most WP readers translates to a person who is both British and Canadian. The second point is - perhaps we're just arguing over semantics here? Can we just say Michael John "Mike" Myers (born May 25, 1963) is a British and Canadian actor? That wording seems a little more clumsy to me, but I'd be willing to accept it if it could avoid all this frivolous debate. NickCT (talk) 04:10, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
- "is a British and Canadian actor": definitely not. It's a clumsy form of speech, and makes "British" primary. He was born in Canada. Her hasn't relinquished his Canadian nationality. He has worked in and visited the UK, never settled there. He's never called himself "British-Canadian", and neither has any reliable source that wasn't quoting Wikipedia, as far as I can determine. I have the feeling that undue weight has been given to Myers' "Britishness", perhaps due to him playing up his Austin Powers and Shrek characters. Anyway, I asked Canadian editors to comment and they seem to concur that the most appropriate form in the lede is just "Canadian". His nationality, citizenships, family are all discussed in detail in the second paragraph. Barsoomian (talk) 04:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
- @Barsoomian - If I'm understanding you correctly, you're not arguing that Myers isn't both British and Canadian, but instead, you're saying that the hyphenated term "British-Canadian" is somehow invalid. If this is the case, then I'd make two points; the first is that I have difficultly seeing your POV. "British-Canadian" to me, and I imagine to most WP readers translates to a person who is both British and Canadian. The second point is - perhaps we're just arguing over semantics here? Can we just say Michael John "Mike" Myers (born May 25, 1963) is a British and Canadian actor? That wording seems a little more clumsy to me, but I'd be willing to accept it if it could avoid all this frivolous debate. NickCT (talk) 04:10, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
- Objective observation is what we are looking for from or editors here... Hes a Canadian (we all agree on that as does Mike himself) that calls himself British (we all agree on this aswell and is proven by his passport) and you believe that adding a hyphen is synthesis or original research? Yep going to have to prove that a hyphen is original research to me. Its not a made up conclusion its fact that he uses these two terms to refer to himself. That said the point in mute because the majority dont think his secondary citizenship(s) should be in the lead anyways. The only problem I see is that British-Canadian is misleading as in it does not explain things properly. Hes a Canadian of British decent I dont see British-Canadian as OR at all its just lacking proper definition in this context.Moxy (talk) 16:51, 23 February 2012 (UTC) Moxy (talk) 16:37, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
- Korolov is STILL irrelevant. And "if you insert hyphen between the two", that is synthesis: "If no reliable source has combined the material in this way, it is original research." Barsoomian (talk) 00:19, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
- Concur ... all said better in the article. The lead is not the place to emphasize his historical roots or connections - we have a whole article for that.Moxy (talk) 05:01, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
- @Barsoomian - re I have the feeling that undue weight has been given to Myers' "Britishness" - Well that's just great. Problem is, "Britishness" isn't something you can measure with a yardstick. It's sorta subjective, as are things like race, ethnicity and religion etc etc. The subjectiveness of these attributes led to policies like Wikipedia:Categorization/Ethnicity,_gender,_religion_and_sexuality and WP:BLPCAT, which point to "self-identification" as being key in these matters. A source has been provided saying that Myers considers himself British and Canadian. Unless you can find a reference in which he says he thinks he is less British than Canadian, then I don't see how your argument is supported by policy.
- re I asked Canadian editors - I don't see why you're asking Canadians. The seems like it might be conflict of interest. Anyways, Canadians are tremendously unreliable (sarc mark!)! NickCT (talk) 00:27, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, self-identification is the key, as I said several times. Myers has never been cited as self-identifying as "British-Canadian". Concluding that he is from other statements is synthesis; read the above discussion and the linked policy. I asked Canadians because they would be familiar with how such terms are used in Canada. Usage of such hyphenated nationality phrases is different in the US, apparently. Barsoomian (talk) 00:42, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- @Barsoomian - re Myers has never been cited as self-identifying as "British-Canadian" - Ok. So we agree self identification is key. I think we agree that Myers has self-identified as Canadian and that he has also self-identified as British. I don't understand how we're not making logical next step here to saying that we can call him "British and Canadian". NickCT (talk) 13:13, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- "logical next step " = synthesis. (Even if I agreed that it was "logical", which I don't.) And have you ever seen anyone described as "British and Canadian"? Has Myers ever described himself in those words? (Which would imply that he was British first, Canadian second.) Why do you want to do this? Barsoomian (talk) 14:05, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- @Barsoomian - re "logical next step " = synthesis" - I'm having a really tough time following your argument. You seem to be saying "Yes, Myers is Canadian. Yes, Myers is British. No, Myers is not British-Canadian, or British and Canadian, or Canadian and British, or what-have-you". Seems very confusing.
- re "(Which would imply that he was British first, Canadian second.)" - I don't care whether you want to call him "British-Canadian", "Canadian-British", "British and Canadian", "Canadian and British" or whatever. I simply think that "British" should be mentioned. Your concern really strikes me as picking at straws. NickCT (talk) 15:10, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry you don't get it. We seem to be in a loop: you say you don't understand my position and state what you think it should be, regardless. We're just talking past each other. However, while you may ignore my reasoning, I don't think you can ignore that the consensus arrived at is just "Canadian" in the lead. "British" is certainly mentioned, much more than "mentioned", and explained fully, in the next paragraph. Barsoomian (talk) 17:55, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- "logical next step " = synthesis. (Even if I agreed that it was "logical", which I don't.) And have you ever seen anyone described as "British and Canadian"? Has Myers ever described himself in those words? (Which would imply that he was British first, Canadian second.) Why do you want to do this? Barsoomian (talk) 14:05, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- @Barsoomian - re Myers has never been cited as self-identifying as "British-Canadian" - Ok. So we agree self identification is key. I think we agree that Myers has self-identified as Canadian and that he has also self-identified as British. I don't understand how we're not making logical next step here to saying that we can call him "British and Canadian". NickCT (talk) 13:13, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, self-identification is the key, as I said several times. Myers has never been cited as self-identifying as "British-Canadian". Concluding that he is from other statements is synthesis; read the above discussion and the linked policy. I asked Canadians because they would be familiar with how such terms are used in Canada. Usage of such hyphenated nationality phrases is different in the US, apparently. Barsoomian (talk) 00:42, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- "no description of me is complete without saying `Englishman'."
- he has stated that he considers himself to be British
- Clearly multiple sources out there saying Myers self-identifies as British/Enlgish. NickCT (talk) 22:43, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- Regarding these cites: the second, Moono.com? What is that? In any case, it opens with "Michael Myers (born May 25, 1963 in Scarborough, Ontario, Canada) is a Canadian actor, comedian, screenwriter, and film producer....", a verbatim copy of our article. Clearly this was just sourced from a version of Wikipedia; a circular reference. The first, Stuff.co.nz begins "Mike Myers loved playing horny, buck-toothed spy Austin Powers and the heavy metal-loving doofus from Wayne's World, but the Canadian comedian says there was something special about crawling into the green skin of the giant ogre, Shrek." It describes him IN THE LEAD SENTENCE, as just "Canadian". As we do now, and goes on to talk about his English heritage, later; the same as our article does now. Barsoomian (talk) 02:13, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
- @Barsoomian - It describes him IN THE LEAD SENTENCE, as just "Canadian" - Yeah that's certainly true, and a majority of the articles I've looked at seem to treat it the same way. Not all do though:
- From www.squidoo.com/mike-myers "Mike Myers is a British- Canadian comedian, actor, screenwriter, and film producer." - Note the use of the term "British Canadian" ;-)
- "He has said in many interviews that he regards himself as British"
- You know, I'd agree with you that Myers is probably "more Canadian" than British (whatever that actually means in light of our earlier conversation about measuring nationality). Actually, somehow when I first read the lead I managed to miss the fact that "of British parentage" is included. That being said, I think the lead already provides a reasonably accurate and neutral POV regarding Myers' nationality/heritage, which, as Barsoomian mentions, seems in-line with the majority of references available. While I think there's still an interesting point about "self-identification" to be made here, I'm not sure I see the need to further emphasize Myers' "Britishness" in the lead. Accordingly, I'm striking my my initial support for the use of the term "British-Canadian" and changing my position to neutral in regards to the proposition.
- Side-note : I'm not sure his facebook page is actually affiliated with him, but it's interesting to note the wiki article is used here. NickCT (talk) 13:25, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
- The squidoo quote, like many others, were copied from Wikipedia. The whole sentence is exactly the same as it was here until recently. And IMDB accepts contributions from anyone; anyone can submit anything to it and it'll probably get published. You can get a real circle jerk of sites quoting each other and then using each other to "verify" the quote. Earlier I noted that I did spend some time searching for any sites that called Myers "British-Canadian" that weren't direct copies of WP: I really couldn't find any. So thanks for (re)considering the case. Nice to know that some people can change their opinions. Most arguments on WP either peter out or become more and more bitter. (Or maybe I'm just jaded.) Barsoomian (talk) 13:49, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
- I sorta like it when the conversations turn bitter and resentful. I'm not getting enough of that in real life!
- I'm still a little confused about your objection to the use of the term "British-Canadian" as a synonym for "a person who is both British and Canadian". It strikes me that combining national identifiers (e.g. Mexican American) is pretty standard practice in a wide array of RSs. But regardless, to avoid risking things getting bitter, why don't we let that one lie. NickCT (talk) 16:43, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
- The squidoo quote, like many others, were copied from Wikipedia. The whole sentence is exactly the same as it was here until recently. And IMDB accepts contributions from anyone; anyone can submit anything to it and it'll probably get published. You can get a real circle jerk of sites quoting each other and then using each other to "verify" the quote. Earlier I noted that I did spend some time searching for any sites that called Myers "British-Canadian" that weren't direct copies of WP: I really couldn't find any. So thanks for (re)considering the case. Nice to know that some people can change their opinions. Most arguments on WP either peter out or become more and more bitter. (Or maybe I'm just jaded.) Barsoomian (talk) 13:49, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
- @Barsoomian - It describes him IN THE LEAD SENTENCE, as just "Canadian" - Yeah that's certainly true, and a majority of the articles I've looked at seem to treat it the same way. Not all do though:
- Regarding these cites: the second, Moono.com? What is that? In any case, it opens with "Michael Myers (born May 25, 1963 in Scarborough, Ontario, Canada) is a Canadian actor, comedian, screenwriter, and film producer....", a verbatim copy of our article. Clearly this was just sourced from a version of Wikipedia; a circular reference. The first, Stuff.co.nz begins "Mike Myers loved playing horny, buck-toothed spy Austin Powers and the heavy metal-loving doofus from Wayne's World, but the Canadian comedian says there was something special about crawling into the green skin of the giant ogre, Shrek." It describes him IN THE LEAD SENTENCE, as just "Canadian". As we do now, and goes on to talk about his English heritage, later; the same as our article does now. Barsoomian (talk) 02:13, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
- comment I feel the way the lead is worded at the moment is neutral and is accurate to the souces. SD (talk contribs) 01:05, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
- I was asked to comment. This is the sort of argument over nationality which wastes the time of everybody concerned. The thing to do in general is to add all countries with which there is any substantial association, unless there is actually a dispute about it in the published literature, in which case add them all and reference the dispute, without making any attempt to decide. But , one point "More Canadian than British" implies both.
- All the countries are mentioned. The question is about the specific wording and emphasis. Barsoomian (talk) 06:12, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
personally i think he should come under Canadian-British because he was born in Canada and his parents were born in Britain Tony (talk) 23:15, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
- If we follow that logic 41% of all Canadian would have some sort of hyphenated Canadianism.Moxy (talk) 23:37, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Adding categories: People from London/Chicago
If Tom Cruise can be listed in People from Ottawa, why can't Mike Myers be listed in People from London/Chicago? Ottawahitech (talk) 01:16, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
That's just a weird Wikipedia policy. They have a lot of work to redo their guidelines on some of the categories, nationalities and ethinicites. I agreee, Cruise and Myers should not be listed in those categories. It is just ridiculous. Norum 02:22, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
- Why not list everyone as from everywhere they've ever visited? That would be the democratic thing to do. It's fascist to insist they actually be "from" the place. Barsoomian (talk) 02:56, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
- For once we agree on something, Barsoomian. Norum 16:13, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Tom Cruise lived in Ottawa as a child for several years, it is not clear how long and when Myers lived in Chicago/London, howeverer the article does specifically mention that he has both UK and US citizenships. Ottawahitech (talk) 06:11, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
- The category isn't "People who lived in XXX" or "Citizens of XXX", it's "People from XXX". Myers was born and raised in Canada, didn't travel to either Chicago or London till he was an adult. It's absurd to claim he is "from" those places. Barsoomian (talk) 00:47, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Jewish culture
Why is "Jewish culture" listed as one of Myers' subjects when he is not a Jew? Zacwill (talk) 21:47, 8 September 2016 (UTC)