Talk:Milan Rešetar

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Reference to Republic of Ragusa[edit]

The reference to the Republic of Ragusa has been removed and replaced by Dalmatia. Republic of Ragusa was extinguished in 1808, 52 years before Milan Rešetar was born. Milan Rešetar was born in Habsburg-ruled Kingdom of Dalmatia, and lived in the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia and Dalmatia for most of his life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.149.192.132 (talk) 05:21, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Ethnicity: Wikipedia Rules[edit]

The subject in question SELF-identified as a Serb, like e.g. Emir Kusturica does. Full stop. Discussion closed. Any change of that fact is VANDALISM.

Moreover, claims about Resetar "later changing his identity and calling himself 'Yugoslav'" are lies, and removing the request for citations is also vandalism. Indeed that is why those claims are unsubstantiated, with any reference.

Eventually, a claim that there are no Serb Catholics is absolutely idiotic (to say the least). Stefan Nemanja, one of early Serbian rulers was a Roman Catholic until he converted to Orthodoxy. Ivo Andric SELF identified as a Serb for the adult part of his life (and as a Croat when he was a teen) and he was Roman-Catholic. Unlike that Milan Resetar NEVER self-identified as a Croat, ONLY as a Serb.

Annabelleigh (talk) 02:37, 28 November 2009 (UTC) Annabelleigh Annabelleigh (talk) 02:37, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rešetar's identifications with "Serbs" is a result of the contemporary Greater Serbian propaganda. Today, he is generally considered as a Croatian linguist (worked in Croatia, wrote on Croatian dialects and literature etc.) --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 06:08, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To the contrary, Rešetar, a scientist in humanities in social sciences, surely knew better about HIS OWN ethnicity, which he always claimed as Serbian, and indeed 65-100 years before "contemporary Serbian propaganda", than does one Štambuk, a perpetrator of contemporary Greater Croatian (aka Ustashi) propaganda that purportedly no Serbs exist or ever existed in Croatia.

Rešetar felt as a Serb NOT Croat, he always self-identified as such, he was born in the Austrian part of Austria-Hungary (at a time when Croatia was a mere province in the Hungarian part), and he had NOTHING to do with Croatia, just like Alexander of Macedon has nothing to do with today's Macedonia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Annabelleigh (talk • contribs) 11:04, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Again, if Rešatar sometimes in his life considered himself a "Serb", that is a fact (which needs to be sourced) and mentioned in the article. That, however, does not change the fact that his generally considered Croat and Croatian linguist in the literature today. Can you differentiate these two? That's the problem with your pan-Serbs, there is always one "truth" which you see the most fit.
Ivo Andrić a Serb - ROTFL. He was an ethnic Croat, born by Croatian parents, who openly declared himself as Croat not in "late teen" but all the way thru collage and early adulthood. There is no way that Andrić and Rešetar could both be "Serbs" by your logic, and its amusing to see you twist it according to your PoV. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 16:23, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you continue to vandalize the article you'll be report to administrators. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 16:25, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]


The one who vandalises this article is you, because you are deleting the requests for substantiating imbecile claims about individual people's ethnic affiliation in Austria-Hungary as purportedly "financed by Serbia". Such a claim is pathetic and ludicrous.

Milan Rešetar, just like Andrić, was indeed a Serb and NOT a Croat by his OWN volition and by his own claim.

Wikipedia objectivity rules do NOT allow for fantasmagoric claims of personal opinions by the likes of you -- that a man who self-identified ALL HIS LIFE as a Serb is a Croat -- i.e. your denial of facts is immaterial.

Annabelleigh (talk) 23:33, 28 November 2009 (UTC)AnnabelleighAnnabelleigh (talk) 23:33, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He also claimed that Serbs and Croats are one and the same people, and that he doesn't make the difference between those two ("„Meni su Srbi i Hrvati jedan narod pod dva imena, pa mi je zato Dubrovnik srpski i hrvatski"). Should we also incorporate that bizarre statement in the article, or it doesn't fit your Greater Serbian propaganda? "Serbian Dubrovnik" LOL. We all saw how that turned out in the 1990s.
Look dude, let me explain it to you again: one's nationality is not something chosen or given by birth. It's something generated by a cultural and societal milieu and work. Rešetar's only connection with "Serbdom" is the affiliation with the so-called "Catholic Serbs" movements organized by GS propagandists, which turned out to be historically a failure, and which must be mentioned appropriately (that means not drawing any conclusion out of it). And that's primarily because that even within that affiliation, his self-identity on quite shaky grounds, because, as one can see above, he also claimed that Croats=Serbs as far as he is concerned. Most appropriately he should be described as a Yugoslav, but we cannot really do that. Why? Because today, he is generally regarded as a Croatian linguist. He was a Croatian by birth, worked in Croatia, wrote on Croatian dialects, Croatian writers and literature... the only ones who can draw conclusion that he is nevertheless a "Serb" are ardent followers of Vojislav Šešelj's ideologies, according to which all Štokavian speakers are Serbs..
And the claims of financing Serbification by Serbia are hardly ludicrous. Ever heard of Načertanije? --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 05:51, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, no Catholic can be a Serb just as no Orthodox Christian can be a Croat. The sole division between the two is religious, which make "Serb Catholic" and "Croatian Orthodox" impossible. A Serbian Orthodox Christian who converts to Roman Catholicism immediately becomes a Croat, a Croat who converts to Orthodoxy immediately becomes a Serb, and a Serb or Croat who converts to Islam becomes a Bosnak. It has nothing to do with who your parents are or where you were born but what your religious affiliation is. Originally all Western South Slavs were Serbian Orthodox, even the Slovenes (who are actually a seperate ethnic group from the Serbs but who were also Orthodox originally, having been Christianized by Byzantium), then Charlemagne and the Bavarians forcibly converted the Slovenes to Roman Catholicism (as they did the Czechs and more slowly the Slovaks)and the Croats came into existance when they were permitted to use Church Slavonic by the Bishop of Rome. The Turks later converted the people of present day Bosnia to Islam, the Serbs remained Orthodox through all of this. I can call myself Japanese, but that doesn't make me Japanese. I'm of European ancestry and Orthodox by the way. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.240.138.78 (talk) 22:26, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity - disclaimer[edit]

I basically hate to include ethnic affiliations of people from Balkans in Wikipedia articles. The source for Resetar's "Serb" links were mainly Mir Harven comments on Talk:Dubrovnik#St. Blasius. Now, since Mir (for the good and the bad of it) has basically departed (AFAIK), and he's probably more informed about the man than I am, I decided to include those facts/rumors in the article. In my opinion he is primarily a Croatian author, but since he also wrote a lot about what we know today as Serbian language, I though it would be fair to categorize him as a "Serbian linguist" also. So, I don't want to create Yet Another Controversial Ethnicity Topic on people from Dubrovnik; feel free to remove his Serbian links if you can disprove Mir's points. Duja 10:07, 8 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If there was a link "Serb biographies", not "Serbian biographies", it wouldn't be any problems.
He belonged to the political movement of so-called "Serb Catholics". Kubura 15:26, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If Rešetar worked in Serbia, I'd leave the categorization to "Serbian". But, he only declared himself to be the Serb. Kubura 07:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If Resetar was a Serb, which he said he was then he cannot be a Croatian because that would mean he was ethnically Croatian. His Catholic religion doesn't prevent him from being part of a Serbian ethnic population of Dubrovnik. Yes, he was born in the country but that cannot make him a Croatian under any norms and rules of his ethnic belonging. Also JAZU cannot be called HAZU because it wasnt called that at the time hence what it was before and after Yugoslavia is irrelevant - that is - unless it is a trick to make him more Croatian than he actually was (not that he was at all). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.27.10.206 (talk) 07:35, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nonsense, there is no such thing as "Catholic Serbs", except in one C19 ideology Rešetar identified himself with (and its modern remnants advocated by Šešelj and other prominent fascists from Serbian Radical Party). --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 11:16, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm back (only as a brief incursion), but as far as Rešetar renewed controversy goes:
1) He's considered a Croatian philologist by "the world"; his works are published and commented upon in Croatia (I don't know any edition on Rešetar in Serbia); the major modern editions of Držić's work (Frano Čale in 1986., contemporary Držić's Lexicon [1] ) are based on Rešetar's transliterations; A Festschrift is devoted to him in Croatia; nothing remotely similar in Serbia. Rešetar's influence is, re contemporary Serbian linguistics- nil. They pay a lip service to him as a, to use Djilas terms, "useful fool", but don't see that Rešetar's work is in any respect integrated into the main corpus of Serbian philology and literary culture.
2) blood & "roots". Rešetar considered himself to be a Serbian Catholic (he was a practicing Catholic, I think). He somehow mellowed after marriage to Vatroslav Jagić's daughter, when he entered into the phase of Yugoslav unitarism (Serbs and Croats two tribes of one nation). Furthermore, his family relations brought him even more in Croatian "vortex"- his son's daughter married Pero Budak, a nephew of writer and NDH minister Mile Budak (also, a writer/dramatist in his own vein). The Rešetar family heirs are Neven Budak, a Croatian historian and former Dean of the Faculty of Philosophy, and his brother. He and his family possess all Rešetar's inheritance and sci papers & collection of books and manuscripts. It seems that Rešetar was a Serb Catholic for some time, than for the rest of his life a Yugoslav integralist. His episodes (much quoted statement that if one would divide Serbian from Croatian, Dubrovnik was Serbian by her speech; a rather neglected fact that he was one of the first 10 academicians during the formative period of NDH to become a member of transformed Croatian Academy of Sciences) don't deserve much attention. Ethnically, Rešetar was a Croat, as are all Rešetars from this area. He self-consciously opted for Serbdom during his Lehrjahre in Vienna, but soon became a convinced "Yugoslav" (along with Vladimir Nazor, Vladimir Čerina, ...).
3) So how do you classify such a a double, nay, triple renegade ? Croat-Serb-Yugoslav- affirmed Croat in NDH. The safest and most correct thing would be to write that Rešetar identified during a period of his life with Serbian ethnic corpus, and that parts of his work deal with Serbian cultural heritage (Njegoš etc.).

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