Talk:Mohamed Bouazizi

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Miasdae. Peer reviewers: Markaberk.

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Arabic form of his name[edit]

  • Tarek el-Tayyib Mohamed Ben Bouazizi; the article gives the Arabic form of his name as محمد البوعزيزي‎ = "Muħammad 'Abū `Azīzīy". But should the "Ben" appear in it, as ابن ibn or bin = "son of"? (The "Tarek el-Tayyib" is probably طارق الطيب , but best check with a native Arabic-speaker.) Anthony Appleyard (talk) 13:22, 25 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is where an expert would be helpful. I don't like that we have an extended name at all, considering we don't have reliable sources for it. Lara 20:11, 25 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "el-Tayyib" الطيب means "the good one"; is it part of his name or is it a post-mortem title? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 23:18, 25 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Great question. No idea. There was a section above where someone requested a toe-tag be read from a video (now removed from YouTube. Someone responded, but I don't think they read it off that video. I can't find any solid sources for it. Most other language WPs don't have an extended name. Those that do probably got it from us. Lara 13:14, 26 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • In literary Arabic, "son of" in "A the son of B" is بن without the alif: زَيْدُ بْنُ هُحَمَّدٍ = Zayd(u) bn(u) Muħammad(in) = "Zaid son of Muħammad"; زَيْدٌ اٝبْنُ هُحَمَّدٍ = Zayd(un) ibn(u) Muħammad(in) = "Zaid is son of Muħammad" (if the vowels are marked). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 23:10, 27 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am not a native speaker of Arabic and have only a limited mastery of the alphabet, but a transliteration of his name in Standard Arabic is Tāriq‎ aṭ-Ṭayyib Muḥammad ibn/bin al-Būʿazīzī. The Tunisian pronouncation may be different. Yonaka (talk) 18:41, 28 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry, in that small Arabic type I missed an L letter. al-Būʿazīzī is likely "him who came from a place or family which was named after someone who was named Abu `Aziz", in a dialect where the initial 'a' of "Abu" = "father of" is sometimes not pronounced. (In his name at the start of the article, someone has deleted the word "Ben".) Anthony Appleyard (talk) 23:35, 28 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I deleted Ben. We have practically no sources for an extended name. Of the sources we do have, they don't agree. So, I went to the Arabic WP and went with what they have, as I figure they'd have the most accurate information when it came to his name, being they use Arabic sources. I also used the Arabic translation from there. Lara 13:48, 1 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Kind of late but arab wiki says طارق الطيب محمد البوعزيزي tarek eltayeb mohamed elbou3azizi Philoleb (talk) 06:33, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Workspace[edit]

Just dropping some links and info here to be worked into the article.

  • [1] Al Jazeera video with family interview. Information about his aspirations as well as info about government's conditions on his burial.
  • [2] Ref that mentions account of other street vendors who witnessed incident with Hamdi.
  • [3] UN pledges to assist Tunisia in their transition to democracy.
  • Lots of new information
Last update: Lara 19:16, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced accusation[edit]

This part is unsourced and needs to be removed, that Faida Hamdi: "slapped him in the face, spat at him." According to the New York Times: "Ms. Hamdy had never slapped Mr. Bouazizi. Do you really believe a woman can slap a man in front of 40 other people and no one would react?” USchick (talk) 00:02, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  1. It's not unsourced. That information is sourced to ref 13. It is also discussed in many other references. Probably each of those following her name, for example. In fact, that "slap" is one aspect that was discussed the most after the news went global. The title of your source is "Slap to a man's pride set off tumult in Tunisia".
  2. It reads "Bouazizi's family claims...".
  3. The second half of the paragraph includes the counters to the claims.
  4. In the Investigation section, it states that she was found innocent.
  5. It is not according to the New York Times that she did not slap him. It is according to her anonymous supervisor who is quoted in a NYT article.
  6. Regardless of the source of the claim (or denial), it's one source that would not negate all others. We would present that claim with the opposing. However, as noted in point 3, we've already done that.
Please do not remove anymore sourced content from the article with erroneous justification. Lara 03:07, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pic[edit]

Any luck finding a free image of Bouazizi? Any interest in looking at a non-free-use rational for an image such as this? Ocaasi c 02:58, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Have you checked cc.aljazeera.net? -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 13:51, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing there, checking Flickr. Ocaasi c 19:56, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Got one. What do you think? Ocaasi c 22:14, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hahahaha, I found the same one and was about to upload it. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 00:04, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think the free one is great. I would still like an actual image of him for the infobox, but the version above it out of proportion. Too wide. Lara 19:14, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes , the image would be great further down in the article, with a regular portrait of him in the infobox. I also got this picture from Flickr, it's of a support protest in France with a cool banner: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:French_support_Bouazizi.jpg . Maybe it would be a good fit in discussing the aftermath, the spread of support for Tunisia around the world, and into subsequent protests. Ocaasi c 22:17, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That would be great! Lara 02:48, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion of Ben Ali's visit to the hospital[edit]

Isn't there a way we could include this image: Ben Ali visiting Bouazizi in hospital under fair use. Never been too knowledgeable on fair use policy, but I double-checked Wikipedia's guidelines on the usage of non-free images and we're allowed to upload such images if they're particularly iconic to an article's subject. So my actual question is, does the image meet that requirement? I believe this article, with some touching up, could definitely qualify for Good article status by the way. --Al Ameer son (talk) 04:35, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Non-free images or media from a commercial source (e.g., Associated Press, AFP, Getty), where the file itself is not the subject of sourced commentary, are considered an invalid claim of fair use and fail the strict requirements of WP:NFCC; and may be deleted immediately. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 07:08, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, I've looked into this as well and it won't be easy to use a portrait photo of him, but especially not that AFP photo. But it's possible, if we use several RS about that visit, especially some that describe that photo specifically (and we would as well). I'm less enthused about this case though, since we really don't want to be giving the Press Agencies competition. Better to find photos with less commercial consequences (or ask the AFP if they'd release the photo; it's unlikely, but since the photo was so newsworthy and part of a tragic/historic national event, who knows). Ocaasi c 07:18, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree that getting a fair use image for this article is going to be difficult. I think the image most likely to successfully make a fair use claim would be the one that has spread like wildfire across the internet. The image of him in the blue jacket with his hands up (best versions crop the hands out). The problem (and the reason I haven't attempted it yet) is the source is unknown. It's mostly found in blogs and such. If I can find the source, I'll be attempting a fair use claim for that as the lead image. As far as GA, I'm hoping to complete the article—there's a lot of new information that's come out about the day the of the altercation—within the next couple of months and then submit it for GA. There is a lot of work still to be done, though. Lara 16:47, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the clarifications everyone. As for the GA nomination, as the article stands right now, it already meets many GA requirements: scope, referencing/citations, stability, and readability. All of those could still be improved of course. I do agree we should wait a little for the pending release of information. Perhaps we should make a to-do list in the meantime. From my own reading, I think the "Death and funeral" section should be expanded slightly, and a couple areas, especially the "Confiscation of wares" section could use some NPOV improvement. If there's other areas and aspects that need to be improved, please list them. Cheers, --Al Ameer son (talk) 20:34, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • This image is not owned by a press agency, but was distributed by the Tunisian Presidency office: [4] [5]. The image itself (which has been very widely distributed [6]) as well as the public relations effort it was part of has been critically commented and can be referenced: [7], [8], [9], ; in French [10], [11], [12], fulfilling requirements for a historical picture per NFCC. Those are are the results of a superficial search, and could be augmented, especially with Arabic sources. walk victor falk talk 15:02, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I wonder why the AFP mark is on some of the images. Thanks for that research! Ocaasi c 15:13, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I have uploaded this image before and it was deleted because of the reason I stated above. I think if anyone can argue that case to keep it would be SilverserenC and Ocaasi; but before we do, we have to make sure the AFP does NOT own. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 15:36, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's strange that some copies do have the AFP watermark, and even there on those two English sources where it reads in the caption or body of the article that the image was a handout released by the Tunisian government, it still has the image credit as either the Associated Press or AFP/Getty Images. I'm confused on how this works. Do they just slap credit to themselves on images they use in their articles or what? Lara 15:41, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have a feeling that if it's released by the government that AFP/AP can slap their mark on it, as the distributor; and that we can't use those versions, but we can use the ones with no mark on them. If we have a source that says this came from the government, then it'd be a stretch to show that AFP owns it--unless the government released it specifically to them, which is almost unfathomable. In any case, NFCC still permits use of press agency photos, if is is the subject of sourced commentary. That's a higher bar to meet, but it's not outside of possibility. Ocaasi c 16:43, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Al-Jazeera English appears to have given the picture some commentary as well: "It took Ben Ali nearly two weeks to visit Mohamed Bouazizi's bedside at the hospital in Ben Arous. For many observers, the official photo of the president looking down on the bandaged young man had a different symbolism from what Ben Ali had probably intended."[13]. --Al Ameer son (talk) 17:22, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's a strong claim for fair use if we write that commentary into the article. Lara 20:17, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mohamed Bouazizi[edit]

his sister was not present at the time. she is not a witness to give testemony or report.

the people there saw a man catch fire.

fires had already been started that day.

self-immolation does not tally with the spit of a police officer or name calling.

mohammed was earning a living for his family of 8, he could not afford to pay a bribe for the return of his expensive digital scales yet he regularly gave the poor free fruit from his cart.

the problems in africa have been as a result of increased food prices due to international economy and war in the middle east effecting trading, with embargos and sanctions to prevent support of 'terrorists'.

yes the media has latched onto this as the cause of the riots, but it is not the cause of the riots, neither is it what the people are fighting for.

they are not fighting for police to be more kind and polite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.3.154.152 (talk) 08:32, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]


other similar complications have been seen eg US burial of osama at sea (believing it to be islam-ic)

regardless the north of africa is below europe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.3.154.152 (talk) 08:40, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article?[edit]

This article seems well-written and referenced. Interested editors may want to consider WP:GAN. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 22:48, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. We were talking about that before, but decided to wait a couple months for more info on him to surface. I think that time has passed though. I see Egyptian Liberal has recently started a peer review so it seems the process has begun. By the way, I passed by this article from the BBC (Doubt over Tunisian 'martyr' who triggered revolution). It contains some interesting info we could add to the Aftermath section. --Al Ameer son (talk) 20:57, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
the article is not going to be a GA till is follows MOS . ive just corrected one date, and im sure theres nore,Lihaas (talk) 13:16, 22 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Very good article. Zezen (talk) 07:11, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

File:In memory of Bouazizi.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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Honors[edit]

Have any schools or streets been (re)named after Bouazizi yet? It would seem likely, especially in Tunisia and Libya, where certain names from the old regimes need changing anyway. Speciate (talk) 23:00, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I hold in my hand correspondence from Tunisia with a stamp honouring Bouazizi and his fruit stand on it. That could be worth mentioning? --195.234.226.149 (talk) 08:34, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it is standard practice in article to mention postage stamps. If you create an account, you can upload an image of the stamp. Speciate (talk) 16:28, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I found an image of the Tunisian Postal Stamp and uploaded it. I don't know enough about Commons to prevent it from being deleted. Can someone please help? Glennconti (talk) 21:19, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We need an image[edit]

I am deeply disappointed that the image used in this article was deleted (based on some spurious claims I believe) on commons merely 5 days after it was nominated. Didn't even get a chance to comment. This place has really lost a lot of the collaborative spirit it had a few years ago, some people whose sole purpose here is to tag/delete definitely need to slow down. Tachfin (talk) 20:30, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Some sources[edit]

Request for Comment: Mohamed Bouazizi and the Occupy movement additions in the 2011 article[edit]

Thought you all might be interested in taking part in the Request for Comment on this subject at Talk:2011#Request_for_Comment:_Mohamed_Bouazizi_and_the_Occupy_movement_additions. Seems to me the writers of this article would be especially qualified to make a judgment. Wrad (talk) 04:16, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Mohamed Bouazizi[edit]

I suggest that the name of the article should be changed to Death of Mohamed Bouazizi, because it was his death is the major defining point of notability. His death, which resulted from the self-immolation, was the catalyst for the Arab Spring. Boneyard90 (talk) 06:15, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

File:Bouazizistamp.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

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name again[edit]

According to this article in the NYT, Mohammed was only his nick name and his official name was Tarek. Assuming the NYT is correct that should be fixed in the article.--Kmhkmh (talk) 00:26, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Copycat incidents - Moshe Silman[edit]

In the Copycat incidents secion, It seems appropriate to mention him. He still does not have a wikipedia page, but the circumctances of his death are strikingly similar. I know this is a contraversial issue, so i won't add it myself and let the editors decide if it should go there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/world/middleeast/israeli-protester-moshe-silman-dies-after-self-immolation.html?_r=1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.1.166 (talk) 16:35, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Family emigration[edit]

His family had to leave the country in 2013, some sources I've dug up (mostly in french since they moved to montreal):

  • Perreault, Laura-Julie (16 December 2015). "«Toute la planète a de la sympathie pour nous, sauf la Tunisie»". La Presse+. Scr. Actualités 18. Retrieved 2015-12-20.
  • Moalla, Taïeb (2015-12-20). "Au coeur d'une révolution, ils s'installent à Montréal". Journal de Montréal. p. 7.

Circéus (talk) 09:27, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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"Immoral"[edit]

Bouazizi's family claims he was publicly humiliated, that a 45-year-old female municipal official...slapped him in the face, spat at him, confiscated his electronic weighing scales, and tossed aside his produce cart after he acted immoral towards her.

What was the "immoral act"? As there's no source cited, that allegation should probably be removed. Matuko (talk) 22:33, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I just removed that statement. I did a double-take when I read it; it came off as very unsual for Wikipedia. "he acted immoral" is very vague, incredibly subjective, and the archived sources don't seem to say anything about it. Heyhayley (talk) 01:14, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Re-title "Copycat incidents" and remove reference to "Werther effect"[edit]

The Werther effect describes a contagion of copycat behaviour which comes as a result of widespread publicity around a suicide. The very concept of self-immolation is to be a message seen by many people to bring awareness to the severity of a situation- if it is meant to be publicized, then it's publicization cannot be an unintended 'contagion'. Further, the use of the word 'copycat' has a negative, even patronizing, connotation in English. This makes it seem as if the article is condemning the protest and the people who joined in, or at least the method of the protest being self-immolation. The Wiki article on similar incidents, such as the self-immolation of Jan Palach, should be used as a model in this case:

"Palach's self-immolation was the second act of that kind after that of Ryszard Siwiec of Poland, which was successfully suppressed by the authorities and was mostly forgotten until the fall of communism. Palach was not known to be aware of Siwiec's protest... Several later incidents of self-immolation may have been influenced by the example of Palach and his media popularity. In the spring of 2003, a total of six young Czechs burned themselves to death, notably Zdeněk Adamec, a 19-year-old student from Humpolec who burned himself on 6 March 2003 on almost the same spot in front of the National Museum where Palach burnt himself, leaving a suicide note explicitly referring to Palach and the others who killed themselves in the 1969 Prague Spring"

Whenever possible, the terminology "burned themselves to death" or "self-immolation" should be used to maintain the political context of the incident as a protest. 38.26.29.47 (talk) 04:18, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohamed_Bouazizi&oldid=1195096731"