Talk:Moritz Moszkowski

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Polonaise in D, Op.17/1[edit]

For some time now, I've been waging a one-man campaign to make Moszkowski's Polonaise in D major, Op.17/1 better known. This is an absolute gem of piano writing that stands comparison with any polonaise of Chopin (no disrespect intended).

Unfortunately, almost no one seems to be aware of it. In well over 40 years of concert-going, record/CD collecting and radio listening, I've never heard the Polonaise so much as referred to, let alone played. To the best of my knowledge it has been recorded only once, by Leopold Godowsky in the 1930s on a piano roll. It was transferred to LP in the 1970s, but the copy that I bought many years ago is showing signs of wear now. To my knowledge, this recording has never had a CD transfer.

They probably couldn't outdo Godowsky anyway (although he does make a sizeable cut, judging from the score), but it would be great to hear anybody else play this fabulous piece of (virtually) undiscovered genius.

I'd mention this piece in the main article but I suppose, given its obscurity, it would be considered somewhat POV. What a paradox. It can't get to be better known and potentially become one of his best-known pieces, unless those who know about it (ie. me) publicise it. But I can't do that here without seeming to have a "non-neutral point of view" (which is exactly what I do have). In my effort to abide by the rules, am I being overcautious and not bold enough? JackofOz 02:38, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you're making a good job of drawing it to public attention through this talk page! That's good, I will certainly look it up. Thanks for the tip-off. Philip Howard 21:27, 9 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: " In my effort to abide by the rules, am I being overcautious and not bold enough?" I would say you're overstepping. Not only should Wikipedia articles be devoid of propagandizing or promotion, so should Wikipedia talk pages be devoid of propagandizing and promotion. Why don't you just tell all your friends and write letters or articles to Piano Magazine (whatever)? TheScotch (talk) 13:09, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the below comment for one more reason. Your personal taste is equal to a personal opinion. And that is a big no-no. I, for example, find this guy a mediocre musician at best. I have never met a single person who after hearing his music without being told who it was, would say anything nice about it. And upon hearing his name, they would all stare blank back at me. Never heard of him.

For a good reason. His harmonies are in the wrong sequence, his consonances and dissonances are also over the place, his pianos and crescendos make no sense, his rhythm is awful. Your favourite, Polonaise in D major, and his Spanish dances are a horrible insult to Polish and Spanish music. And I won't even go to the obvious fact that the Polonaise is filled with various segments scavenged from across the piano and orchestral spectrum. As was his practice until his end. I can practically hear Liszt and Debussy trying to escape from it.

He was a clueless copycat. 103.12.191.163 (talk) 07:09, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

how to pronounce his name?[edit]

i have no idea.

To a Pole, it would be like "mosh-kovsky", but it is usually heard in English as "moss-kovsky". JackofOz 02:47, 8 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

To all of us, it is Mosh-KOFF-skee (in silly imitated pronunciation, but you get the idea I hope!) Philip Howard 21:30, 9 January 2006 (UTC) Thanks - it helps to pronounce it as it should sound. No need to do the same as with "English" version of Latin--Traveler273 07:28, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Only that in the Polish language we don't have the 'sh' sound. We pronounce 'sz' harder, think about the sequence of /s - sh - sz/ sounds. And the letter i at the end is something between the English /ee/ and /y/: short, but not so /y/-sounding. Think about the difference between accented: sheep /ee/, ship /y/ and unaccented twentY. That y sound at the end of twenty is Polish /i/. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.182.196.177 (talk) 21:48, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

how to classify his ethnicity?[edit]

Born in Germany, died in France, the progeny of a Jewish family that moved around a lot. Is the surname the final arbiter here? Dr. Dan 16:29, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My Grove V says he was a "German pianist of Polish descent". He was born in 1854, when there was no such country as "Germany", but that is also true of Beethoven et al. I have no knowledge of how long his forebears had lived in Germany. And I'm not at all sure his legal first name was ever the Polish "Maurycy". It's always shown as plain Moritz in any book I've ever read. I'll make the changes. JackofOz 00:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is not the final arbiter what Moszkowski himself thought he was? If someone believes they are Polish then this is surely what they are? From what I've gleaned from the literature, Moszkowski himself: a) called himself Moritz (while living in Prussia / Germany) or Maurice (whilst in France). He never signed himself "Maurycy"; b) considered himself to be Polish, not German; c) declared that he was Jewish.

I have therefore changed the first paragraph to concur with Moszkowski's own declarations of nationality and nomenclature. Any comments? John M Potter (talk) 00:26, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maurycy Moszkowski, better known under this name, but not in your circles--Traveler273 07:25, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ignacy Paderewski called him polish pianist. Besides Breslau was a polish city too same as Posen (Poznań) and Danzig (Gdańsk)- Breslau= Wrocław (it was a city of Moszkowski such as German Edith Stein or Polish Ludwik Hirszfeld, Hugo Steinhaus). Moszkowski is a name from polish szlachta. He studied under Theodor Kullak- polish composer (so he had a polish education of music and style of playing). He was writing polish music (for example Polish dances- Polskie tańce) and texts in polish. His favourite composer was Chopin. There is no clues to opiniate that he was a German. Same we could 'change' nationality of Roman Ingarden for German... 740

To person from Poznan 740 You posted blatant Polish Nationalist POV. Before you show your lack of accurate knowledge, you might want to read up on the facts a little bit. Theodor Kullak, for example had a German educator. You might also take a look at the works of the German born, German educated Composer List of compositions by Moritz Moszkowski, particularly the titles. Greetings 24 April, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.137.201.57 (talk) 16:32, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sheet Music[edit]

Can anyone tell me why it takes an act of congress to find Moszkowski sheet music for purchase anywhere? Aside from his 15 Études de Virtuositie and his Spanish Dances, I find it nearly impossible to find songbooks with any of his lesser-known pieces. The largest collection I've found so far is online at this site, but they charge by the piece for crummy-quality scans in PDF format, and I'd rather just own the original sheet music from which they were made. Does anyone know who the publisher might be of these pieces? Checking online with larger retailers (e.g., SheetMusicPlus) yields the usual titles and not much more. - toki 06:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is indeed a tough road. I've found quite a lot of Moszkowski free of charge on the web, but always as you say in PDF format. Quality varies from excellent to abysmal. But that remains the largest source, to my knowledge. In terms of original publications, my personal collection contains only the Liebeswalzer, Op.57/5, published by Peters, which I discovered in a second-hand book shop. I ordered the above-mentioned Polonaise in D, Op. 17/1 from Camera Obscura Editions in the USA, hoping for a good quality print. It's a photocopy of a facsimile of the original, with no indication of its original publisher. It's good enough (just) to play from, but is not great. One day, one day .... -- JackofOz 09:36, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the first publisher of the Drei Klavierstücke in Tanzform, Op.17 of which the polonaise is the first part- that is, the publisher of the first edition- was Julius Hainauer of Breslau (now Wroclaw), around 1877/78 according to Hofmeisters Monatsberichte. (An interesting publisher founded by- of course :) - Julius Hainauer (1827–1897), described in a recent source as a bookseller, publisher, vendor and city councillor. I should write a stub based on, alas, the little I have found out about him- which I like, fwiw...) (HMB also lists Hainauer's publishing Moszkowski's Opus 16, 2 Konzertstücke, at the same time.) Schissel | Sound the Note! 17:22, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He was a mediocre musician. His music is replete with parts from many, better, musicians. He never excelled in anything, and his music never rose beyond the cheap cafes and boudoirs. There is a reason why he is rarely performed today. 103.12.191.163 (talk) 07:14, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(as of early this month the first edition of no.1 of op.17- though not yet the other 2 - can be downloaded from IMSLP.)

Other compositions[edit]

a well-researched PDF available online containing a list of his published and manuscript works (though not always in what shape) lists his early first piano concerto (in B minor) and a symphony (manuscript, at the BNF- which intrigues- no, not the symphonic poem Jeanne d'Arc; the worklist- and maybe the manuscript score itself- is oddly ambiguous as to whether the work is in D minor or C major, but it seems to be in one of those two keys, not Jeanne d'Arc's E major. Hopefully inspection, editing and publication of the BNF manuscript will clear everything up, if, as one hopes... er, well, I hope... this occurs...) (see: Assenov, Werkmonographie, p.359–360.) Schissel | Sound the Note! 17:13, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Anecdote and couplet about "crétins" not well documented?[edit]

I wrote about this in the Talk section of Hans von Bülow. Marlindale (talk) 02:49, 9 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Looking for the two letters from Maurice Moszkowski (while living in France) to which I found references, it now seems that they are not available even for sale. Marlindale (talk) 02:55, 23 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

redlinked pianists[edit]

In Recordings, I found no WP article about Seta Tanyel. Joseph Moog exists in German but currently not in English WP. Marlindale (talk) 14:04, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bizarre criticism[edit]

Re: " ...his [M.'s] music has also been described as 'devoid of the masculine and the feminine'. " Does this actually mean something? If so, then if the article is to include this criticism it ought to explain it. If not, the article should take a pass. TheScotch (talk) 13:17, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Moszkowski Violin Concerto[edit]

This might be my personal taste, but I feel like Moszkowski's Violin Concerto could be mentioned more in the article? It truly is one of his great works, and not many know of it. It'd be a refresher to hear his Violin Concerto being played by a famous violinist instead of repeats of composer's works, and promoting it more in this Wikipedia article would be a great step forward toward that goal. MusicaDeViolín (talk) 17:51, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Media - New Audio Files Added[edit]

I (Kbwiki001 (talk) 17:20, 29 February 2024 (UTC)) added three new audio files to the article. They are Moszkowski's Gondoliera Op.41 in G minor - Op.91 No.11 in C major - Op.77 No.4 - Op.91 No.18 in A minor performed by my colleague (of 27 years) Kaila Rochelle on her Yamaha CLP-645 Clavinova to a PnoTeq Pro 7.5.1 Bechstein DG virtual piano instrument.[reply]

'We' are the 'owners' of these works and have applied the appropriate wiki publishing license (Kbwiki001 (talk) 17:20, 29 February 2024 (UTC))[reply]