Talk:Moroccan (disambiguation)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no action taken. After much confusion, article and redirect are in accordance with consensus and guidelines. Favonian (talk) 15:08, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

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Moroccan (disambiguation) → Moroccan – According to the discussion at Talk:Moroccan#disambiguation (as well as WP:ANI, sadly), I am requesting that we explicate the general consensus for this kind of a change to be done again - "Moroccan" should be a disambiguation page, because this demonym/ethnonym/adjective is no different from other similar terms whose entries in the English Wikipedia are disambiguation pages. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 12:24, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

• Makes sense to me. If there isn't a clear primary topic then the dab page normally lives at the root title, and there's no obvious consensus that the demonym is the clear primary topic here. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 12:44, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

• Comment: Looking at the edit histories, there was a copy and paste move [1] and [2] which I have reverted. Rather than (properly) move the pages again, I think the move discussion should proceed, although proposed outcome is in fact the status quo for the time being. If the move discussion is unsuccessful, the pages can be moved back.
  • Sigh, no, read the linked discussions first. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 07:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Based on correlation with other similar people/nation/language pages, I support the move as proposed. older ≠ wiser 20:01, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

• Support, seems straightforward and makes sense. In the absence of a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC the disambiguation page should be at the term in question. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 01:18, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

• Comment this was reverted, the copy-paste was undone, so this talk page can be closed. 65.94.77.11 (talk) 03:33, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

• If you look at the discussion leading up to this at Talk:Moroccan#disambiguation and WP:ANI, I think we should let the discussion run its course. User:Tachfin has yet to make any opinion known, though he/she appeared rather adamant earlier. older ≠ wiser 03:52, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

• There is nothing to move here, page is already moved, as User:Joy deleted then hismerged the two pages, so the history of this page is already at "Moroccan". No way to undo that. Tachfin (talk) 04:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

• • I've undone the change made by Bkonrad after the discussion had already started, in order to avoid the impression that the discussion is prejudiced against you. Please voice your opinion about the question raised (nothing is undoable). --Joy [shallot] (talk) 08:13, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

• This is extraordinary. The edit history of the merged pages is at Moroccan, the disambiguation page content was then copied and pasted to Moroccan (disambiguation). It would be piling wrongs upon wrongs to move what is now at Moroccan (disambiguation) over Moroccan as per the proposal. If you want the move to proceed as proposed, the page that is currently at Moroccan should first be moved with the edit history (and not copy-pasted) to Moroccan (disambiguation). older ≠ wiser 11:53, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

• Oh, okay. In any case, let's let the discussion about the general idea finish normally first, and then fix the technical issues, since Tachfin has already complained about previous technical interventions as if they were content interventions. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 12:16, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

• Right. But it is very confusing -- because, if the move proposal has consensus, then nothing should be done. If the move proposal fails, the pages will need to be reversed. Perhaps it would be clearer to withdraw this move proposal and then propose that Moroccan be moved to to Moroccan (disambiguation) and that Moroccan become a redirect to Moroccan people, which I think is the outcome that Tachfin wants (please feel free to clarify if I've misunderstood). older ≠ wiser 12:30, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

• I don't like the idea of extending this agony any further. People seem to be sufficiently clear on what needs to be done here - establish consensus one way or the other (or some third way if anyone has a third opinion, obviously). --Joy [shallot] (talk) 22:17, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
• I don't agree with that though, Bkonrad. Moroccan should be the disambig page, not a redirect. That's what I read this proposal as asking for. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 22:37, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

@TechnoSymbiosis, please review the edit history carefully. older ≠ wiser 23:35, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

I had done so before I commented, it's fairly short and unremarkable. Whether this page is moved or redirected to Moroccan, the disambig page should be at Moroccan. That page shouldn't be a redirect to Moroccan people. I don't believe that would pass WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 02:28, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Then you seem to have misunderstood what happened and what I said.

1. Prior to the move discussion being opened here, Joy and Tachfin had some conflict regarding whether Moroccan should be a disambiguation page or whether it should redirect to Morocco. It is my current understanding from re-reading Talk:Moroccan and the edit histories of both pages that Tachfin wanted Moroccan to be a redirect to Morocco and that Joy wanted the disambiguation page to be at Moroccan.
2. After some edit warring, Joy controversially merged the edit histories of Moroccan (disambiguation) and Moroccan with the disambiguation page and merged edit history at Moroccan.
3. Tachfin then performed a copy and paste move of the disambiguation page to Moroccan (disambiguation) and changed Moroccan to redirect to Morocco.
4. It was at this point that Joy proposed the move, although as proposed it would have involved overwriting the merged edit history at Moroccan with the abbreviated history at Moroccan (disambiguation).
5. I reverted the copy and paste move to keep the disambiguation content and edit history together at Moroccan. Moroccan (disambiguation) was restored to be a redirect to the disambiguation page. There was another copy and past move and reversion in the interim, but to no significant effect.
6. With the disambiguation page at already at Moroccan, the proposal to move Moroccan (disambiguation) to Moroccan seemed rather confusing. At first I suggested that the move discussion should be allowed to continue, since Tachfin, one of the initial disputants had not commented at that point. I subsequently changed my mind and suggested that it might be clearer to simply close this move discussion since a "successful" outcome would counter-intuitively mean than no pages would be moved since the disambiguation page was already located at the proposed title of Moroccan and it would make no sense whatsoever to move Moroccan (disambiguation) over Moroccan. I then suggested that a new move move discussion be opened to consider an outcome that I thought Tachfin had wanted based on his/her edits and comments at Talk:Moroccan — although I now realize that I misread the edits and comments. I suggested a discussion to consider moving Moroccan to Moroccan (disambiguation) and changing Moroccan to be a redirect to Moroccan people. However, it appears Tachfin actually wanted Moroccan to be a redirect to Morocco. In either case, I personally did not advocate such a move and redirect and only wanted the discussion to consider what one of the initial disputants actually wanted rather than the nonsensical move as currently proposed.

With all that said, perhaps you could clarify what it is that you disagree with me about? older ≠ wiser 03:24, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

I did understand the bulk of that. I hadn't noticed Tachfin wanted a redirect to Morocco, though that's really an aside. I disagreed with the suggestion within the proposal (to have Moroccan as a redirect), not the process of the proposal itself. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I grant that this move request is somewhat malformed, but I think most of the responses seem to acknowledge that 'support' equates to 'keep the status quo' so I wasn't sure that closing and recreating would be strictly necessary. If you think the situation is confusing enough, I have no problem with it being reposted, and I'll be voting in opposition to it if it's a proposal to make Moroccan a redirect. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 05:36, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

• Support (i.e. keep things the way they are): Some sites refer to Moroccan Arabic as "Moroccan", so combined with the usual linking usually intending Morocco and searching intending Moroccan people, I see no primary topic, and I don't think WP:TWODABS applies. TimBentley (talk) 18:47, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.