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Can I nominate the following paragraph for the most out-of-place sentence ever.
Today the town is a thriving local centre. It is a commuter town for Newcastle upon Tyne, and benefits from excellent transport links ... its railway station has direct trains to London taking a little over three hours. Several fatal rail crashes have occurred at Morpeth. The school facilities are also highly rated, ...
Fair comment - I came across the page about the rail crashes but it was previously not linked from the Morpeth article, which of course it needed to be. At the time, I didn't have much time to do anything other than include a quick link - and the most obvious place was next to the only mention of railways. Reading all the positive stuff before and after, it does look a bit out of place. I'll look at including it in a slightly less "sudden" manner! Halsteadk11:58, 2 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Surely the most out-of-place sentence ever is this cheesy specimen: "It was a very sad/bleak day in the history of such a prestigious old town but it showed the courage and love that this community has for one another and has made everyone more friendly towards each other."93.158.79.70 (talk) 15:48, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why is Cuthbert Collingwood, 1st Baron Collingwood, the victor in Battle of Trafalgar, not mention in the paragraph "People associated with Morpeth"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.177.253.226 (talk) 19:15, 11 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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I will be making improvements to this article so that it can meet the GA article criteria. I have already created an image montage and removed some unsourced claims. Please message me if you are planning to review for GA. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions11:36, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have any GA credits myself, but I have participated in multiple peer reviews, have observed a wide variety of good article reviews, and done a bunch of DYK reviews, so I believe I can review for the criteria decently. Hopefully I can do this right!--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?00:15, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The article is certainly very interesting and you have made some great improvements to it; however, it definitely needs a lot of work before it can become a good article, particularly with sourcing, writing quality, and some small close paraphrasing issues. I should be able to investigate some more soon and see what can be improved to get it closer to GA status. Hopefully we can work together to get this there!--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?00:22, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note that I've added a general subcriteria for the checklist within the 2 parent criterion. This is not in the initial template, but it's entirely possible that this article could fail the verifiability criterion 2, but still pass its subcriteria. For example, including information from other Wikipedia articles without adding the source doesn't fall under 2a, 2b, 2c, or 2d, but still fails the general verifiability criterion. This was a bold action, but it is within the GA criteria, and unless the nominator or anyone else minds, I see no issue with having it there.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?14:52, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Here are the current pending issues that need to be addressed before this can become a good article. Once you fix each problem or want to comment on it, you can mark each individual item with {{done}} or {{not done}}, comment on it, or ask me a question. The list is unorganized right now and in no particular order; I may have to come up with some better method of organization if it gets too long.
Overall, I'm not sure if the lead necessarily summarizes the article the way it's required at WP:MOS/LEAD. Many important aspects of the article are not mentioned, while there are some sentences that go into detail that is almost a direct copy-and-paste from the article body. For example, the sentence "In 2008 the town suffered a severe flood, which caused damage to 1000 properties and lead 400 residents to be evacuated" is almost directly copied and pasted from the article body with lots of details, but nothing about the town's history, with the exception of the castles built, despite the history section taking up so much of the article.
It's definitely better, but although I hate to be picky, I still don't think it adequately summarizes the article overall; the first paragraph seems to just pick off a few scattered points in the article and explain them in detail rather than summarize the whole article as a whole. I'll try to write a new lead for you and see what you think of it, and if you like it replace the current lead with such in the article; I think it will be easier this way.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?22:45, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Minor point but would suggest replacing Another possible meaning is that the name derives from the Old English pre-7th-century compound morð-pæð or Morthpaeth ("murder path") in remembrance of "some forgotten" slaying on the road.[10][11][12][13] This meaning has been suggested to be "fanciful" by some sources.[9] with Another possible meaning is that the name derives from the Old English pre-7th-century compound morð-pæð or Morthpaeth, meaning "murder path", in remembrance of "some forgotten" slaying on the road,[10][11][12][13] although some old documents suggest that this meaning is a falacy.[9] Not quite sure this is the best way to do to fix up the sentences but the structure currently doesn't seem very clear/concise.
Do you happen to know the relationship between Ranulf and William de Merlay? I think that's something readers might be left wanting but if you can't find it anywhere it's not a dealbreaker or anything.
There are more minor improvements that could be made to it, but all of them are beyond the scope of GA. Spelling and grammar are fine, prose is clear with the possible exception of what I mentioned directly above, sufficient references/verifiability except for the possible exception of what I mentioned above about being a civil parish, sources completely consist of either the BBC News or verified government-hosted websites so reliable enough, no copyvio, decent length/detail, no POV, stable, no images... should be good to go other than the concerns above; I've made a few very minor copy-edits to this section.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?03:39, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That should be everything. Same as the above section, everything seems to check with the GA crtieria with except for the concerns mentioned above; again, improvements could be made but they are out of the GA scope. I have made a few minor copy-edits to the section.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?14:33, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Who's the publisher of this source or is it affiliated with the government or anything? I'm a bit skeptical about its reliability, but I'm not too concerned as it doesn't support anything controversial.
@SkyGazer 512: After looking further, I see that this new source does not support the information that the old source supports in the article, specifically until 1854, when the racetrack was replaced with St. George's Hospital in that the new source supports the existence but not the replacement and a date for the closure of the racetrack. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions21:43, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know the publisher for The Great North Road: The Old Mail Road to Scotland? It looks decent at first glance and it isn't being used to support anything contentious, but it still would be nice for determining reliability to know who published it, if possible.
These are the issues that have been either addressed or the matter has been resolved in some other way. If you have questions or concerns about any of these issues, please feel free to move them back to the pending issues section.
I know you are working on the lead, so I'm not going to stress too much on this at the moment, but having both "lying on the River Wansbeck" and "It is located at a crossing point of the River Wansbeck" just a few sentences away from each other seems redundant.
The lead needs a lot of expansion. It is currently only 3 sentences long, of which one is very stubby. The main problem is that none of the content in the body is mentioned in the lead. You have a lot of info in the article, including long prose in the history and religious sites sections, so summarize it in the lead. For an article this length, I would say make the lead at least 1 full paragraph long, preferably 2.
Is there a reason why 2011 is italicized in the infobox? I don't think it needs to be.
The lead section says that the population of the town is 14,017 as of 2011. However, the infobox says it's 14,018. The source you provided in both instances says it's 14,017, so you should change it to that in the infobox.
"Two castles were built to defend the river crossing," could you perhaps modify this to explain that it's the river crossing where Morpeth is located, if that's accurate? Currently the phrase doesn't describe its relation to the town itself.
"the river crossing, in 1095 under the de Merlay family on Haw Hill and Morpeth Castle in the 14th century"; I believe this should be and could be worded bit clearer; if you can't think of solutions, I can give you some ideas.
"For the purposes of parish elections, the town is split into 3 wards North, Kirkhill and Stobhill"; I think that's incorrect grammar, and that a comma or colon or some kind of punctuation mark would be needed after "3 wards." However, this may be acceptable in British English; I'm an American. I'll see what you think.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?14:18, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
All of these issues have been solved, issues with this section that have not yet been addressed are listed in the Pending issues section
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
"Morpeth grew up" perhaps a more specific and clearer phrasing could be used? Did the city grow in population? What exactly? "Grew up" isn't a clear term.
"important crossing point of the River Wansbeck" Important doesn't tell us much. Either explain what exactly happened there that's important, or remove the word important.
This is a less important verifiability issue, but ref number 2 (https://archive.org/stream/ahandbookfortra00haregoog#page/n200/mode/2up) is used to support the phrase "archaically spelt Morepath." It says that it's mentioned on page 186, but it's actually page 185 where the book says "Morpeth, anciently Morepath." You could solve this problem by using a dash (185–186) in {{cite book}}.
"The town was badly damaged by fire in 1215 during the First Barons' War" seems sort of bland and choppy, especially due to the stubby one-sentences around it. You could make this much more descriptive from the source you have, about the fact that it was the barons who set it on fire and that the purpose was to "obstruct the military operations of King John" according to this source.
There are two issues with the sentence "For some months in 1515–16 Margaret Tudor (Henry VIII's sister) and Queen Consort of Scotland (James IV's widow) lay ill at Morpeth Castle, having been brought there from Harbottle Castle." First of all, it's unsourced so if possible, please add a citation to it. The second is that it seems sort of out of place. It is just one sentence in a single paragraph, is unrelated to everything around it, and seems to be more related to Morpeth Castle than the city specifically. I'm not sure the best thing to do about it, however. Remove it? Rewrite it? Expand on it? I'll think about this more.
I have an idea on this one. You could add the stand-alone paragraph to the previous paragraph, incorporating it in the following way, putting aside the sourcing problem, which will also need to be fixed:
Morpeth Castle was built in the 14th century by Ranulph de Merlay on the site of an earlier fortress; for some months in 1515–16, Margaret Tudor (Henry VIII's sister) and Queen Consort of Scotland (James IV's widow) had laid ill there, having been brought there from Harbottle Castle. The only remains of the castle are the gatehouse, which was restored by the Landmark Trust in 1990, and parts of the ruined castle walls.
@SkyGazer 512: Cannot find a reliable source to say when the castle gatehouse was restored. However, it was restored by the Landmark Trust (although the only source is connected to the Landmark Trust, they are reliable and have no reason to lie about restoring a property. Furthermore, I will only use the source to prove that they restored it). Let me know if you are not happy with this source. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions21:31, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The market info is scattered in two places across the history section, without any connection mentioned, which makes it sort of confusing and messy. In the second paragraph, you have "King John granted a market charter for the town to Roger de Merlay in 1199. The market is still held on Wednesdays." Much later in the section, you have "Until the 19th century Morpeth had one of the main markets in Northern England for live cattle. The opening of the railways made transport to Newcastle easier, and the market accordingly declined." Reading the text from this source, "The town was given permission to hold a market in 1199. It probably took place on the site of the modern market place. The market was also especially important for the buying and selling of cattle, and by the mid-18th century it was one of the most important cattle markets in the country. It only began to decline in importance with the building of the railways in the mid-19th century," it appears that both markets are the same.
I personally can think of two options here. You could combine everything in something like King John granted a market charter for the town to Roger de Merlay in 1199. It became one of the main markets in Northern England by the mid 1700s; however, the opening of the railways made transport to Newcastle easier in the 19th century, and the market accordingly declined. The market is still held on Wednesdays., of course adding references as needed. You could also keep the first instance the same, but replace the second instance where the market is brought up with something like The market built from the charter King John granted became one of the main markets in Northern England by the mid 1700s; however, the opening of the railways made transport to Newcastle easier in the 19th century, and the market accordingly declined. If you choose the second option, I'd suggest moving the "The market is still held on Wednesdays" sentence to the second instance. I personally like the first option better. My options could certainly be worded much better, but I'm just sort of brainstorming and thinking of ideas now, not trying to make it worded perfectly. I definitely would suggest adding the info about the fact that it was one of the primary in the 1700s/18th century; you have the time period in your sources, and I personally think it makes the phrase feel more complete, so add it.
Some of the book citations have no page numbers. Page numbers allow for easy verification, so I would strongly suggest adding them. Unfortunately, this may be a bit difficult if you don't have access to the book.
Done All sources that need page numbers have them, except for the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. The dictionary actually being a journal and each person having an article, page numbers can be sketchy (as different versions of a journal, with the same content for one article, may have different page numbers). Probably cannot get pages for this, therefore, marking as done. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions00:21, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure if source #4 is reliable enough for a GA. It looks self-published and written by a single editor, but it's true that the only claim it supports in the article doesn't seem controversial and the editor does seem to be a somewhat reliable writer, based on his work elsewhere. I'll let you respond with your thoughts.
@Dreamy Jazz: I did a Google Search, and although most of the stuff I found about this fact was either too vague or self-published, I did find this, which appears to be published by a reliable publisher and I don't see why it would be a questionable source. However, due to the uncertainty of the claim, I feel it would be ideal to have more than 1 reliable source supporting this claim.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?22:52, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Dreamy Jazz: Unfortunately, there's not an "About us" on that website to give details, but it doesn't look extremely reliable, so I would suggest being on the safe side and using a different source. It certainly would be nice to be able to see the publisher, the author, etc. as that would help tremendously when determining if it's a reliable source or not. Btw, I don't think it's copied from Wikipedia, as a lot of the phrasing is completely different, sometimes even factually.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?13:36, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"Morpeth, archaically spelt Morepath, is recorded in the Assize Rolls of Northumberland of 1256 as Morpath and Morthpath." Morpath and Morthpath are both archaic names as well, so this sentence could be reworded for clarity; currently it flows a bit weird. Maybe something like "Morpeth is recorded in the Assize Rolls of Northumberland of 1256 as Morpath and Morthpath, and was also archaically spelt as Morepath" or something like that? I'm not quite sure.
"There is, however, a local tradition," do the two books state explicitly that it's a local tradition? Both of the online sources cited don't say so, but if you're able to access the books and can confirm that they state it, I'll assume good faith and we can keep it there; otherwise, this could be considered weak original research.
Done (removed) The 1920 book, which I added, just gives the dominant meaning of the town's name, but does say that this meaning describes some long ago "slaying on the road". It does not say that this is a local tradition, however. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions12:03, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Which source says that the motte-and-bailey castle was "built to be the headquarters of the Ward of Morpeth?" Like above, it doesn't look like source 12 says so.
"life in Morpeth was disturbed by a garrison of Italian mercenaries" probably doesn't follow WP:Words to watch, particularly the "life was disturbed" part. Should be removed or replaced with something more specific.
The paragraph layout's a bit strange. I'd suggest separating off the Morpeth Castle bit from the second paragraph and combining the third paragraph with it. I provided more details about this particular part above, in the 5th issue. I'd also suggest combining the 6th, 7th, and 8th paragraphs, as they're all short.
Actually, I'd suggest a complete reorganization for the current 1st and 2nd paragraphs. I'd suggest putting the first 3 sentences of the second paragraph first, and then putting the first paragraph directly after that, but merging it into the same paragraph. I'd then suggest separating the "The town was badly damaged by fire" part into a different paragraph. Curious what you'd think about this, Dreamy Jazz.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?01:33, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"In the final stages of the Norman conquest, the military occupation following the Harrying of the North delivered the town into the possession of the de Merlay family" doesn't appear to be supported by source 12.
"and was a notable air-gunnery training school." It's not a good idea to use the word "notable" but only have the source as the mentioned school's website. I'd suggest removing the word notable and also adding an independent source to make it clear why this school is important enough to Morpeth's history to be included in the section.
"a stone bridge was built over the Wansbeck, replacing the ford" maybe you could specify if the ford and stone bridge were located where the river crosses Morpeth or otherwise explain how it relates to Morpeth?
Move "The motte-and-bailey castle was burnt down by King John in 1216" to before the stone bridge sentence; the paragraph will flow a lot better this way.
Wondering if it would be better to combine the air-gunnery training school info with the previous paragraph and separate the Northumbrian Gathering info into a whole short paragraph? This isn't strictly a requirement for GA, but I think it would significantly improve the readability.
"The town became a borough by prescription" is there any way that this could be more descriptive, at least describing when it became one relative to other events or an exact year? I'm not too familiar with the "in prescription" term, though, so I'd be curious what your thoughts are on this. Also, I'd suggest adding this source in front of the sentence for clear verification; it's currently several sentences later and after another ref for another statement.
Done for the source. Not done for the first point. The term "by prescription" means, in this case, that the borough status of the town has been in place so long, that history is not recorded for the date this status was granted / added to the town, so no date or even approximate date is known. In English law Time immemorial is the same as by prescription for land etc., which is where the phrase currently is wikilinked to. This book does say that Morpeth borough first sent members of parliament in the reign of Queen Mary, but does not say this is when the borough was created. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions21:59, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What makes this a reliable source? I'm not saying it is or isn't; I just would like to know more details about it and who owns it, if possible.
The backbone of the 'Keys to the Past' website is a database containing information about every known archaeological site in the Durham and Northumberland area. This includes information from all periods of the region's past, from the slightest traces of earliest prehistory, through the Roman Wall and Medieval castles and churches to monuments of the recent industrial past.
County Councils have long held such databases listing these sites, now known as Historic Environment Records but previously known as Sites and Monument Records, which are central to the planning process. However, the 'Keys to the Past' project is the first time that such databases have been completely reworked to allow easy access for the public. Ultimately, it is hoped that 'Keys to the Past' will become the first stop for everybody with an interest in the archaeology of the Durham and Northumberland, whether school children or academics.
"The town and the county's history and culture are celebrated at the annual Northumbrian Gathering." When I first saw this, I wondered why some random festival would be notable. However, a Google Search shows quite a few independent sources covering it. I'd suggest adding these and expanding this sentence based on the info you find. The sentence as it is makes readers wonder what this event is and why it is notable; anyone can create their own event and claim that it celebrates the town's history and culture.
All of these issues have been solved, issues with this section that have not yet been addressed are listed in the Pending issues section
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
A lot of the info in the first paragraph isn't supported by the source following it. The only thing the source says that is mentioned in the first paragraph is that the town is divided into three wards. Where did the info about 9 Conservatives, 5 Liberal Democrats and one Green member come from?
Done The information comes from each sub-page linked off of the cited page. On each of these pages for the 3 wards, is each councillor. Counting these up gives the numbers listed. However, I think that the method of counting is weak original research, so should probably be removed (I cannot find a source that backs up this statement). If you think it is fine, let me know, but for now I'll remove it. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions23:24, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, Dreamy Jazz, I personally don't think that counting up the numbers would be considered original research. I should have looked at the subpages before making conclusions; bad me. :-) If you add the information back, I do think you must link directly to the ward subpage rather than just the parent page, so that the information can be verified directly. If you do this, I wouldn't count it against the GA.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?23:37, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Likewise, most of the info in the second paragraph isn't mentioned in source 18, e.g. it doesn't mention any info in the sentence "Previous to this there was an intermediate tier, the non-metropolitan district of Castle Morpeth, which has been abolished along with all other districts in the county."
Just a comment: the part about being a civil parish is not supported by the source, but government for towns really isn't my strength so this may be one of those rare cases where it's so obvious that a citation isn't necessary. I'll see what you think.
"of whom three represent the electoral divisions of Morpeth Kirkhill, Morpeth North and Morpeth Stobhill" minor point but perhaps you could clarify this a bit more to match what the source says, specifying County Councilor and that it's one councilor per ward.
@Dreamy Jazz: I've moved this one back from the done section as I believe you misunderstood what I meant. The change you made instead was actually an improvement so I would suggest keeping it, but if you look closely at the sentence I provided, you'll see that it's actually in the second paragraph and has not been done yet.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?14:55, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"On 6 September 2008, Morpeth suffered its worst flood since 1963." This isn't very specific. Does it mean the flood that killed the largest amount of people? Injured the largest amount of people? Covered the most area? Had the deepest water? Destroyed the most buildings? "Worst flood" doesn't make this clear.
Eh, after thinking about this more, "worst" might work for simply GA, as I don't think it's so vague that it would prevent the article from passing the "clear and concise" criterion. However, you'll definitely need a source that says that it was the worst since 1963, otherwise you could just replace the text with "a severe flood."--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?22:52, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
1 is the parlimenatry debate motion on the flood, where "Mr. Denis Murphy (Wansbeck) (Lab)" describes it the flooding: While other parts of the north-east of England were affected by the most intensive rainfall in living memory, the town of Morpeth was devastated. This does not directly say it was the worst flood and cannot find a source to say the "worst flood" (except sources copying from Wikipedia), so I will change the wording to severe flood. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions22:58, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"The flood defences were breached after a month's rainfall fell in 12 hours" appears to be directly copied-and-pasted from this source. Also, the citation following it doesn't support the "flood defences were breached" claim.
"The completion of the Dam was the final part of the Morpeth flood defence plan and reduces the risk of flooding from Cotting burn" I believe "reduces" needs to be changed to "reduced" for correct grammar and/or consistent flow throughout the sentence.
Change "An estimated 1,000 homes" to "An estimated 1,000 buildings." The BBC News ref mentions that about 1,000 properties were flooded, which is broader than the term "houses"; it could include churches, restaurants, etc.
When I click the link to the MNKI page, I get a privacy error. Someone found an archive for me, so I'll play around with that some and see what needs to be done.
Done I'll add this source in. If later down the line you (or I or others) think this source is not suitable (and I have not found a replacement) or that this source is not enough, it may be best to remove this statement. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions19:55, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I believe you could significantly expand the flooding info based off of the sources you have. However, if you don't do this, it will not be held against the GA criteria, as I still would say the section is broad in its coverage, but it would be helpful if you ever want to get this to A-class or something.
Do you have any information about the publisher, author, owner, etc. of this website? I'm a bit skeptical of its reliability and can't seem to find any of this info, but I do think it's fine to be a bit more lenient for this one as it does not support, as worded by the GA criteria, "direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged."
"The town's flood defences were breached when a month's worth of rainfall fell in 12 hours" in the Wikipedia article vs. "The flood defences were breached after a month's rainfall fell in 12 hours" in the source; probably too close of paraphrasing.
Ref 60 and 64 are both the same ref; combine then using refname. The first one is formatted correctly, as the news source is actually the Evening Chronicle, not the television talk show.
All of these issues have been solved, issues with this section that have not yet been addressed are listed in the Pending issues section
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Sabre-roads.org.uk is an unreliable source. It's a wiki, and although it's a tiny bit harder to edit than Wikipedia is, i.e. Wikipedia literately anyone can click the edit button without logging in, being verified, etc., still on Sabre-roads.org, all you have to do is give a username and password, enter your favorite road, have a valid email address, and you can edit the page. Please either remove this material or use a different source.
The second and third sentences are completely unsourced. More details related to the third sentence are covered at Rail accidents at Morpeth, which contains a number of citations, so you could steal some sources from over there.
Done Cannot find a source for this (and it may not be), but it is still very severe. I think that the fast speed before the curve and then drivers not looking for the new speed limit of 40 is the major cause of most of the crashes. Removing the offending text and replacing with "a sharp curve", as supported by the source I added. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions19:29, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: I (Dreamy Jazz) will need to expand this section as it is only one sentence now... I could move this to another section, but the only section which could possibly take this is the history section.
"The A1 road passes by the town" minor point but I believe "through" is a clearer word. I would also suggest describing very briefly that it's the longest numbered road in the UK, but this is not a requirement and I won't hold this against the GA criteria.
"A non-passenger line still operates between Morpeth and Bedlington" using the word "still" implies a relation to previous info; e.g., that there used to be multiple non-passenger lines going from Morpeth but now there's only one going to Bedlington. Could you describe this relation or remove the word still?
Done Morpeth used to be connected to other stations (such as Rothbury etc.), as mentioned in the next sentence. Whether these were used for freight is another matter. I am going to remove still, as I cannot find the existence of these lines through sources. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions22:33, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There's something strange about this ref. The ref in the Wikipedia article is linked to The Journal (newspaper). However, the URL of the article's ref is thejournal.co.uk, while The Journal (newspaper) article says that it's journallive.co.uk. But even more confusing, apparently what The Journal's article says is their website, instead redirects to the website of the Evening Chronicle/Chronicle Live. I believe this confusion will have to be solved before this can become a good article.
Done The website for the journal website has been merged with the chronicle's website per 1 which says
The website feeds two daily newspapers - The Chronicle and the Journal - as well as the Sunday Sun, England’s best-selling regional Sunday.
The actual newspaper is still running, but the website with their news is placed on the chronicle's website. This is because their parent company (Trinity Mirror) merged the online websites into the chronicle's website in 2015, so that all the domain names for the journal newspaper now redirect to the chronicle. See 1.
Both domain names redirect to the chronicle live website, confirming they are both owned by the parent company (and the newspaper).
I'm still confused. The Wikipedia article that's linked to in the ref says the newspaper a URL which redirects to the Chronicle Live, but the URL within this article is completely different and does not redirect anywhere, nor say that it's in fact the Chronicle Live instead.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?03:05, 9 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
On the about page of chronicle live, it says that The website feeds two daily newspapers - The Chronicle and the Journal - as well as the Sunday Sun, England’s best-selling regional Sunday. This shows that the journal's news is published online through the chronicle's website. This happened, according to this news report, in 2015 (and also that thejournal.co.uk is owned by the parent company). The task of merging the websites was botched, so news that was published before 2015 was kept on the thejournal.co.uk website, but not on journallive.co.uk.
All of these issues have been solved, issues with this section that have not yet been addressed are listed in the Pending issues section
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I might be being a bit too picky for GA here but "It is included in the list of the oldest schools in the United Kingdom. It gained Beacon and Leading Edge status in 2003 and 2004," doesn't seem to flow well. Maybe include the historical info before, merging it into an existing sentence, or somehow combine each sentence somewhere else in the paragraph so that it flows better overall? I'll try to think of some better ways of organization.
The third paragraph lists a bunch of schools that the city has, but the only references are to each of the school's website. I think it would be better to have independent sources, if possible, though if they don't exist, they don't, and I don't think it would be a sole reason to fail this GAN.
@Dreamy Jazz: I personally think that would be okay; for something uncontroversial like this, I don't think finding a New York Times quality source would be necessary. However, looking at that, there appear to be many, many more primary schools just in Morpeth than listed on the Wikipedia article, and one more middle school. Also, the source doesn't seem to cover the info about St. Robert's R.C. First School, so you'll have to either add a source for that or remove the text, preferably the former.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?13:47, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, all of the following primary schools are listed on the website as located in Morpeth, but are not in the Wikipedia article:
Amble First School
Amble Links First School
Broomhill First School
Cambo First School
Ellington Primary School
Felton C of E Primary School
Grange View C of E Vol Controlled First School
Harbottle C of E Voluntary Aided First School
Linton Primary School
Longhorsley St Helen's C of E First School
Morpeth Road Academy
Pegswood Primary School
Red Row First School
Rothbury First School
St Robert's RC Voluntary Aided First School
Stannington First School
Swarland Primary School
Thropton Village First School
Tritlington C of E First School
Warkworth C of E Primary School
Walton C of E Aided Primary School
In addition, the following high schools are located in Morpeth, according to the website, but high schools aren't mentioned at all in the Wikipedia article.
James Calvert Spence College - Acklington Road
The King Edward VI School
Also, apparently Dr Thomlinson C of E Middle School is located in Morpeth but not mentioned in the article. We could list the full middle schools and high schools pretty easily; however, the primary school list is huge, and may not be worth including.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?13:59, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, well that's interesting. It seems the website lists a bunch of schools as located in Morpeth, when they are not directly in Morpeth, but rather near Morpeth. I wouldn't say the fact that it includes it solely makes it unreliable, but I'm not sure if it would be suitable for this article; honestly, I'm a bit unsure what could be done here besides just not listing any schools.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?22:13, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done (nearly) I have been able to prove that all the schools are in morpeth (and Benet Biscop is in bedlington) with references to [www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk], which I feel is independent and reliable. I have still to find a way to link the two catholic schools, but am currently looking for this. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions10:54, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done (removed) I have been unable to find a source to link the schools (only sources seem to suggest that the first school is a feeder school for The King Edward VI School). Because of that, I have outright removed the information (it was not very crucial to the article and is not directly related to morpeth anyway). Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions00:12, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest combining the second and third paragraphs and rewriting them somewhat. The current organization doesn't seem to flow well and I'm not sure if it meets the "well written" criteria for GAs. Here is an improvement suggestion, although of course, I'm not very familiar with the subject, so there may be some errors. As you can see, it doesn't include the citations and thus doesn't resolve the citation issues I addressed above.
The town has two middle schools, Newminster and Chantry, which are built next door to one another. It also has several primary schools: Abbeyfields First School in Kirkhill, Morpeth First School in Goosehill, Stobhillgate First School in the Stobhill housing estate, and Morpeth All Saints' Church of England-aided First School in Lancaster Park, which is located north of the town. Additionally, St. Robert's R.C. First School, a primary school for Roman Catholics, is located in Oldgate, Morpeth, with its corresponding high school, St Benet Biscop Catholic Academy, being in Bedlington instead, a nearby town.
Is this reliable? I don't know much about it; do you know what it's publisher is? What it's author is? I'm skeptical about the reliability of this.
Done Getting a book for a replacement of this source. It is called "The Story of Morpeth Grammar School" by G Kennedy and has been cited by the morpeth herald and a book about tudor schools. Also added this source which talks breifly about a "charter in 1552". Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions13:54, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The last thing you mention about the King Edward VI School is that it was called Morpeth Grammar School in 1552. To establish due weight, I would strongly suggest quickly summarizing how it got renamed to King Edward VI School; it doesn't make sense to have the earlier history in more detail, but then just cut off and leave readers wondering what happened to the school afterwards.
The second part of the first paragraph, It was formerly a chantry school, established in the 14th century but which had been abolished in 1547 before its refounding. It is included in the list of the oldest schools in the United Kingdom. It gained Beacon and Leading Edge status in 2003 and 2004., as well as the second paragraph, are completely unsourced.
Done I have not been able to yet find a source to support being established in the 14th century or being abolished in 1547. I will remove this information for now but might add it back if I can find said source to support. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions11:11, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Dreamy Jazz: Imo, that wouldn't need a source, but the thing is, the statement's sort of misleading, as the school's actually about the 120th on the list. The only reason why it's even there is because the Wikipedia list happens to include all schools seventeenth-century before; I do not think of this as one of the oldest schools in the United Kingdom when there are 119 schools older than it, many of which were founded in the 500s, 600s, 700s, 800s, etc. I'd support removing the statement.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?13:36, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The second sentence's structure seems a bit repetitive with "[PHRASE], but [PHRASE], but [PHRASE]." I would also suggest removing "then" or replacing with "later."
No source for the two middle schools being right next to each other; I know someone could figure that out themselves by traveling there, but I doubt it's a good method of verifiability. But still, I suppose it could be a case of WP:BLUE.
The first service took place in a tannery loft in the town in February 1693 before a chapel (still surviving as a private house) was built in 1721 in Cottingwood Lane on the Wikipedia article compared to The first service took place in a tannery loft in February 1693 and later, a chapel, still surviving as a private house, was built in 1721 in Cottingwood Lane. on the URL the article is paraphrased from. This should be fairly easy to modify; I can already think of ideas.
The building is in the early English style and includes a stained glass rose window is a direct copy-paste.
The following are also close paraphrasing that probably should be fixed if possible, but are not as important and may be harder to paraphrase further:
The first service in the building was held on 12 April 1860 on the Wikipedia article compared to the first service in the building was held on Thursday 12th April 1860 on http://www.urc-morpeth.org.uk/page1.html
A third church, St Aidan's, was founded in 1957 as a mission church to the Stobhill estate, on the south east of the town on the Wikipedia article compared to St Aidan's is also the youngest building, having been founded in 1957 as a mission church to the Stobhill estate, on the south east of the town on http://www.parishofmorpeth.org.uk/staidan.htm
In the third paragraph, the text St James the Great is an external link. External links should not be in the body of articles, and in this case, it's redundant as it's the exact same link as ref 39. Please remove the link from the prose.
Hardly any of the content in the third paragraph is supported by the subsequent ref, but I feel like this is a case where the material is actually supported by a subpage of the ref. If so, it should be referenced to the subpage(s) directly, for clear verification.
Partly done The old wording was not very clear, but the information (in my opinion) was loosely supported by the source. I have reworded the first part of the paragraph to be supported by the source more clearly. There were no subpages that I could find which more closley supported the previous text. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions11:18, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
By "20th century building" in the fourth paragraph of the section, I'm assuming you mean that the style and look of the building is like most in the 20th-century? If so, then the source provided doesn't directly support this.
I don't know if it's just me being picky, but having "dedicated to St Robert of Newminster" and "dedicated by the Right Reverend" right next to each other seems a bit repetitive. Perhaps you could think of something more descriptive in one of the cases?
"It is notable for its octagonal spirelet" - better not to directly call something notable unless an independent source states so per WP:PEACOCK. If it is one of the few churches to contain such, the only, the first, or something similar, say that instead; otherwise, just replace the end of the paragraph "and includes a stained glass rose window and octagonal spirelet," or something like that.
"has been restored on a number of occasions" Why did it need to be restored? The phrase is a bit confusing and leaves the readers wanting to know more. I would suggest adding a very brief summary of the fact that the Scandinavian, Scottish and Cromwellian destroyed the church, as covered in this source.
The entire "Church of England" section is only referenced to the subject's website. I'd suggest adding a better variety of references, to cover all viewpoints.
@SkyGazer 512: Done Only part of this section which is only referenced by a non-independent source is the second half of the first paragraph. Cannot find a source to support this. Do you think that this part should be removed or kept (to meet the GA criteria)? Thanks, Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions23:42, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that would be any problem for GA. I didn't necessarily mean that every single statement absolutely must be supported by an independent source; it would just be nice to use the point of view of someone who is not affiliated with the church when possible to ensure this meets the GA criteria. I'll check the refs in more detail later but it seems good to go; nice job with the section!--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?23:45, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Would also suggest adding independent sources to the United Reformed Church section.
Partly done@SkyGazer 512: I have added two sources which only support limited information. Sources for this section have been hard to find. I won't touch the text now, but do you think that this section will meet the GA criteria for the sources? If not, the only option now is to remove some of the information. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions23:38, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That seems fine; I won't hold it against the GA criteria. Really all I think is necessary is to add some independent sources just to make sure we're not missing any significant viewpoints and only using what the website says as required by criterion 4, "it represents viewpoints fairly."--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?04:17, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The whole United Reformed Church section seems to be worded and arranged weirdly, but it could just be my opinion. If you agree, I'd suggest rewriting it a bit to make it as clear, concise, and so that readers are not left wanting, as possible. In particular, I'd suggest starting with explaining what the church is and where it is located, and then providing clear information about the sequence of historical events and how they are related. Let me know if you need any help with this.
Where in sources 83, 84, or 85 is "The oldest remaining parts of the structure belong to the Transitional Early English style of the mid to late 12th century" supported? I can't seem to find it.
In ref 100, "North & South Shields Gazette and Northumberland and Durham Advertiser" needs to be italicized; it's also a Work, not a Publisher. If you replace the publisher parameter with work parameter, it should automatically be italicized as well.
The layout of the final sentence is strange and doesn't meet the "clear and concise" criterion. Don't put the location of the church, it's style, and specific features about the style as separate items in the same item list. Would suggest something like The church stands immediately to the north of the Telford Bridge[106] and is in the style of the early English era, containing a stained glass rose window and an octagonal spirelet.[107]
"then back to Grange House Field from 1945..." The source doesn't specifically say it was 1945 when they moved back. Yes, it says they moved back there when the war ended, but it never says right when the war ended; maybe they waited a year after the end to move there.
I would suggest replacing "There was a racecourse where horse racing events were held from 1730" with "In 1730, a racecourse was built where racing events were held," just for the sake of clarity.
I'm not really sure if the "it was still in use in the mid-19th century" sentence from the source is strong enough evidence to clearly state that the racing events were no longer held after the mid-19th century in the article.
"Morpeth Harriers cater for those wishing to compete in athletics." I have 2 suggestions from this sentence. The first is that adding a transition word, such as "In addition" would make the paragraph less scattered. Also, this is a minor point, but I think a more neutral wording like "The Morpeth Harriers compete in athletics" sounds more encyclopedic than "cater for those wishing to compete."
I believe "for the two world wars" should be changed to "during the two world wars" for the sake of clarity. I would do this myself, except that I'm not 100% sure that this is what was meant for the sentence so I wanted to bring it up here.
I made a mistake with my last modification suggestion to the final sentence of the section; I forgot to specify "horse racing." Change "built where racing events were held" to "built where horse racing events were held."
"until the mid 19th century and the racetrack was replaced with St. Georges Hospital in 1854" condense that if at all possible so that the prose can be clear and concise. Perhaps change it to "until 1854, when the racetrack was replaced with St. Georges Hospital"? If you carry out that suggestion, remove the comma after "were held" as well.
"Morpeth Town A.F.C., Morpeth RUFC, the cricket, hockey and tennis club and the golf club." I believe what this means is that cricket, hockey, and tennis are in the same club, while all the other sports are separate clubs? It's unclear to me currently, but I'm not sure how to make it clearer, as I'm pretty sure serial commas are generally not a thing in British English.
Done Removed the cricket, hockey and tennis club from the sport section as I cannot find sources to support their playing in competitions etc. I can find their websites, but they are limited and don't have anything on competitions from what I can see. Side effect is that it fixes this problem. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions12:31, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing in the first paragraph is supported by the provided source except for the very short last sentence.
"the common and the leisure centre" could this be more specific and clarified? Or course, the first step would be to find a source for the sentence the phrase is located in, as mentioned above.
"and the golf club" not the only golf club that ever plays is in Morpeth, so this should be "a golf club" or better yet put the exact title of the golf club if possible instead
the common for playing golf and football "the common" isn't a term I'm familiar with, it seems like a grammatical/structure error to me
Done/Not done A common means Common land, which is an English term for land which was traditionally owned by person(s), but use of the land was granted to everyone (i.e. the commoners). It is named "the common" as this is what common land is commonly refereed to as.
Carlisle Park is a multi-award winning park in the heart of Morpeth, Northumberland. Situated on the south bank of the River Wansbeck, it contains the William Turner Garden, formal gardens, an aviary, play areas, a paddling pool, ancient woodland, picnic areas, toilets, tennis courts, bowling greens, a skate park appears to be a direct copy and paste of the source. I don't know the license of the source, but if it's copyrighted you must paraphrase it, and if it's public domain, CC-BY-SA, or a similar license, you must give attribution, but paraphrasing it would still be preferred.
Once you figure out the copy-paste issue, you'll need to reference a specific award to independent sources for the park, still not making the bullet point too long.
The bullet point for the third ref appears to be a Wikipedia mirror. This is never a reliable source and needs to be replaced with a better source, or the information removed.
Once you have the copy-paste and preferably the sourcing issues figured out and sorted, make sure to add an "A" to the beginning of some of the bullet points. "Nuclear bunker located underneath the former council building at Morpeth County Hall" is poor grammar.
I think that if a bullet point only contains one short phrase which is not a sentence, it shouldn't have a period at the end, but I'm not completely sure.
"The historical layout of central Morpeth consists" is "consists" or "consisted" correct here? Historical implies in the past, so I believe it's the latter, but I could be wrong.
"Carlisle Park is a park in the centre of town, having been awarded the Green Flag Award..." doesn't flow well after you rightfully removed "award-winning." I'd suggest making several edits to the paragraph: move the list of awards to the end of the paragraph, merge the "located on the southern bank of the River Wansbeck" with the first sentence, and make the list of features in the park a separate sentence.
At the beginning of the section you have a list of features in the town providing either little description or no description in prose. Then, you go on to talk about more prominent features in detail. However, at the end of the section, you have another list of more features with little or no description, but this time as a list. This makes the section kind of seem all over the place.
Done Moved the first section to the bullet list, as if the landmarks are not talked about in detail in their own paragraph, then I would say they are less notable and so should be placed in the bullet list below. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions19:23, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't seem like any of the info in the second paragraph is supported by the source. If a subpage of the source covers it instead, link there for clear verification.
As the Morpeth railway station bullet point is more detailed and rather broad, I'd suggest making it its own paragraph, but this is a smaller point and probably won't be held against the GACR.
"unofficially considered the smallest park" does the source explicitly state "unofficially?" Maybe this could be more specific? Also, the sources seem to say the smallest park in the world, not just in Britain. But it appears that the Guinness Book of Records say that Mill Ends Park is in fact the smallest park in the world. Maybe you could try to find more sources to break the confusion?
@SkyGazer 512:this source says that people have tried for the Guinness Book of Records, however this does not seem reliable. I think that "lay claim" and "celebrated" suggest that this was never confirmed officially. Also there is a board next to the park could provide more information, but I suspect that using an photograph as a source might be not upto GA standards (the board was co-produced with the scouts, county council and i think a university). What do you think? See the image on pinterest. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions19:09, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
which stands above the town to the south "above" isn't a very clear term, it could mean a number of things
Done In this case it means higher than the centre of the town, in that the town is in a valley and the castle is up the hill and on it's own hill too. I've replaced it with hill as it conveys the same info. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions21:51, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
All of these issues have been solved, issues with this section that have not yet been addressed are listed in the Pending issues section
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I'd suggest briefly explaining in the article what Joseph Berry did that's related to Morpeth, as the Berry article doesn't seem to mention anything about Morpeth.
Done (removed) I have found this source which only seems to say that he moved there when he was 3. Not really notable for Morpeth, as then he, at 12, went to school in Alnwick (which is further than Rothbury). I am going to remove this, as although he did once have a connection with the town: a) it seems very non-notable and b) the only source to show this seems to be biased anyway. Furthermore, it seems that (based on the original text) this was some kind of advertisement for the website, performed by Pa3jd (inactive for years now; only made 14 edits) and I suspect they know or are the creator of the website linked. The website no longer exists and archives is what we can go off. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions20:32, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Condense the summary of Cuthbert Collingwood, 1st Baron Collingwood, if possible. His entry is not meant to be a whole biography about him, that's what his full article is meant for; it's better to just very briefly explain what he was and his association with Morpeth.
Like I mentioned in the Landmarks section, I don't think bullet points that only contain one short non-sentence phrase should have a period at the end, but I could be wrong
Move the image of Emily Wilding Davison's statue to the Landmarks section where it talks about it. The notable people section mentions nothing about the actual statue, but the Landmarks section explains it in detail.
All of these issues have been solved, issues with this section that have not yet been addressed are listed in the Pending issues section
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Delete this section and move {{commons category}} to the top of the references section, in accordance with MOS:LAYOUTEL (as required by the GA criteria)
One thing I've noticed throughout the article overall is that a very large amount of the references used to support large amounts of material are primary or non-independent. For example, there are sections which are almost completely sourced to church websites or the town's website. If possible, I'd suggest trying to get some more reliable, independent sources for as many of the facts referenced to primary sources as possible, so that we can ensure that this meets the 2b criterion. I haven't yet done a double check of all the sources in the article.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?19:13, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Dreamy Jazz: I've now organized this page better; the resolved issues are in a separate section from the pending issues section and hatted, so that they are only shown when clicking the "show" button. It took a long time to do that, but it was definitely worth it; I certainly appreciate not having to scroll down through text and text and text of resolved stuff in order to see what issues haven't been addressed yet. If you have any possible questions or concerns about any of the resolved issues, feel free to move them back to the pending issues section.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?01:27, 22 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This article is starting to come along now. The review has been up for over a month now, which is much longer than most reviews; however, this was mostly due to the amount of unsourced content to begin with, which for many reviewers would be a cause for quick fail and was something I was close to doing, but most of the content is sourced now so a lot of what's left is stuff that's easy to fix. If possible, I'd appreciate it if you to try to address the issues as quickly as time permits (although, of course, real life events have priority and it looks like you've been addressing them pretty quickly already) and in return I'll try to point out the remaining issues as quickly as I can. Don't worry; this review won't go on forever. :-)--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?03:15, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nice job; thanks for being so quick. I believe once I take my final checks after every section I'll be almost completely done, but I will be looking back at the History section before passing this because of how large and complicated it is, and I haven't yet checked it extremely thoroughly.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?22:45, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I'll have a lot of time to work on this review this week. We're very close to done, currently I'm doing a few final checks against the criteria and writing the minor issues down on my computer; I should be finished in a few days. After that, I'll work on the lead some in my sandbox. Then, this should be good to pass. Apologies for not getting to this sooner.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?03:53, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
My list is almost finished, but I've been a bit more busy lately and therefore had less time to review this than I'd hoped. I am almost done with the final list, so I should be able to post it within the next few days. I believe that once I've done so, I'll place this on hold for you to address the issues as soon as possible during which time I'll finish tweaking the lead in my sandbox.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?03:37, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm working to get everything that would be needed to get this to GA to be addressed. I've been a bad reviewer and procrastinated way too much so I'll try to do as much as I can in these next few days when I have more time. The issue list is quite long and more will likely be coming, but I would like for you to try to get this done in a week. If you can't get these addressed within that period of time, that's understandable but if these aren't addressed for too long, it may have to be failed. If it is failed, please don't worry; the article has come a very long way since before you started editing it. Quite honestly, it probably would've probably been better if I'd quick failed this to begin with, but I haven't so we might as well try as hard as possible to get it to GA. I've been putting this off for too long!--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?16:29, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I still feel like the sentence "The town became a borough by prescription" comes out of nowhere. If it really is "time immemorial", why would you include it in between the information about Newminster Abbey and the information about the market charter?
Done I have moved this information to the second last paragraph, as it is better suited with the charter of incorporation from Charles II, as this confirms Morpeth's borough status.
How do you know the market still held on Wednesdays is the same?
@SkyGazer 512:. These sources 1 and 2 in conjunction prove so, but might be unreliable. The other name for the Wednesday market is the market charter. On the first page, it says Morpeth received its Market Charter from King John in 1199, and so celebrated the 800th anniversary of the market in 1999 and on the second page it says Wednesday Market Morpeth Charter Market is held every Wednesday from 9am till 4pm on Morpeth Market Place. Also 3 which is more reliable in passing mentions Morpeth ... has a Royal Market Charter going back to 1199.. Do you think the first 2 sources are good enough for a GA and is the third source enough, if the first answer is no? Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions18:02, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
controlled by seven companies or trade guilds is a bit unclear to me. Do you mean that some of them were companies and others trade guilds? Are you not sure if some of them are companies or trade guilds? Looks like the source just mentions "companies" and nothing about "trade guilds," so I'd suggest just cutting out "or trade guilds".
Done
Although technically allowed, I really don't think it's a good idea to directly copy all of the Northumbrian Gathering page onto this (you actually did it vice versa, Morpeth --> Northumbrian Gathering, but essentially the same thing). I'd suggest doing a brief summary of the gathering's relation to Morpeth.
Done
Having a dam with a storage reservoir was built on the Mitford Estate and then in May 2017, works on building a £27m dam were completed is very unclear. If these dams are the same, which I presume they are, merge these two phrases.
Done (however, not your suggestion). These are two different dams and to clarify I have reworded the second and third sentence.
What exactly is Cotting Burn? A city? A body of water?
Done A burn is a watercourse and the name of the burn is "Cotting". I will wikilink this to save confusion.
Nitpick but "later" in later in the 1970s lost its grammar school status seems very redundant
Done removed.
Like the Northumbrian Gathering, I don't think it's a good idea to have a substantial paragraph duplicate of St Mary's, Highchurch
Done.
What is Highchurch and where does the source mention it?
Done "Highchurch", per the source, is [t]he part of Morpeth on the south bank of the river. The source mentions this at the start of section 4.1 (which is what the source references to in the |at= parameter of the cite template). This section includes St' Mary's church as a subsection and as the section is about the "South of the Wansbeck" I would say that this shows that the church is in Highchurch (on the south side of the river).
The oldest remaining parts of the structure belong to the Transitional Early English style seems strange, how about use "are in the" instead of "belong to"?
Done changed to your suggestion.
The foundation stone of St George's URC Church was laid down should be reworded. It could either sound like only stone was laid down then and other parts of it were built up later or not at all, which is obviously incorrect, or just a non-encyclopedic version of St. George's URC Church was built, so use that.
@SkyGazer 512: The foundation stone is when the construction started, being literally the first stone placed, so I think that your suggestion may not be the best idea here, as was built could suggest that the church was completed at this date (which is not the case). The church was not built in a short period of time, most likely being finished just before the first service took place. It may have been that construction was on/off in this period (however I don't know this for sure). Perhaps something like The construction of St. George's URC Church started in 1858? I would appreciate your input. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions17:43, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In addition the Morpeth Harriers complete in athletics... in American English, a comma would be needed after "in addition", but not sure what it is in British English so I'll let you respond.
Done added comma. British english is the same on this matter.
I think replacing after the war until 1958 with after the war until its end in 1958 would be a bit clearer; right now it makes it seem like it moved after 1958 and we only known it didn't by reading a preceding sentence
Done as suggested.
Would suggest replacing where horse racing events were held which for horse racing, but this is not a requirement; it's more of a personal preference so I won't hold it against the GA criteria
Done does seem unnecessarily wordy.
Like the others, not sure I feel about having the information about Mafeking Park and Carlisle Park duplicating their own pages
Done reworded and slimmed the text for both
Clarify that Mafeking Park is not actually the smallest in the world and the attempts to have it listed as such were unsuccessful, maybe was unsuccessfully put forward by locals to be listed
Done per your suggestion.
Delete "notably" before the park has one of the only four floral clocks in England
MOS:ALSO says As a general rule, the "See also" section should not repeat links that appear in the article's body or its navigation boxes. The see also section for this article consists almost entirely of subjects discussed in detail and linked many times in the body.
Done removed all duplicate links, except the portals per WP:Portal guidelines#Linking to portals and because navboxes can't be seen by mobile users, for more than half of readers the link would not be there.
Current political makeup Any idea as of when? WP:RELTIME
DoneSince May 2017, and added source.
Could you add the website parameter for ref #3?
Done.
Nitpick, but sometimes you link to Morpeth Herald in the ref section and other times you don't. How about just link it for the first ref and not at all for the rest?
The third paragraph seems to be written strangely: first castle destroyed, bridge built in 13th century, another castle built in 13th century. I'd suggest grouping the info about the castles together and putting the bridge info afterwards, unless there are sources that make it clear that the second castle was built after the bridge.
@SkyGazer 512: I am unsure about this. The way it is written currently allows it to flow nicely into more information about the castle (which definitely happened after the bridge was built). By splitting these statements it would then still jump (if it needed to keep to chronological order), as it would then go "castle castle bridge castle". I don't mind changing it to be this way, but I would say the reasons you want to change it would counteract your idea too. Thanks, Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions14:18, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not a fan of how the first part of the Climate section is written. First you talk about the weather station, and then there's suddenly a table about the weather of Morpeth without prose about it. How about add to the first paragraph: The following table shows the data from 1971–2000, recorded at 95 metres (312 ft) elevation: and remove the caption from the table? I feel like that would be better. Also, this is not a requirement, just a personal preference, but I'd suggest replacing the first sentence of the Climate section with Cockle Park, located slightly north of Morpeth, contains a Met Office weather station, founded in 1897. If you go with the second suggestion, you'd have to change the second sentence I suggested to The following table shows the climate data of the station from 1971–2000, recorded at 95 metres (312 ft) elevation:
Done I can't remove the caption completely as {{Weather box}} has the top caption as a requirement, so I have left it with only "Morpeth, Cockle Park"
Done I have removed this source in favour of the keys to the past, which is used elsewhere.
3 March 2019:
Take a look at User:SkyGazer 512/sandbox. I've rewritten the lead so that it hopefully does a slightly better job summarizing the article as a whole. You know more about this subject than I do so if you want to skim through it to make sure there aren't any errors before replacing the lead in the main article with that, that would be much appreciated.
"Another possible meaning is that the name" sounds a bit jumbled. Can you think of a better way to word this? Honestly, I'm not sure the best way to word it and if you can't think of a better wording either I think we can just leave it; not a deal-breaker.
Done (not changed) I can't think of a better way to word it.
Nitpick but "over the years" in the Transport section seems redundant
Done (removed) It does seem a bit extra to requirements for the sentence.
A former line ran west, any idea when this former line was? Having the exact year isn't a requirement, but it would be nice to know whether it was a few years ago or centuries ago.
I have found the wiki pages for both parts of the line which this sentence talks about. They are Border Counties Railway and Wansbeck Railway. I'll look into this now
Can't find any sources (except books without pages), so I don't think I can find anything. However, [1] does mention about the rothbury line closing in 1952, but I'll continue to look.
Found [2] which is about the rothbury branch line ::::: Done Crucially [3] which says Wannie Line, which opened in the middle of the 19th Century and saw its last train run in 1966 and It ran for 25 miles through rural Northumberland from Morpeth to Reedsmouth, near Bellingham.. Basically in this news article, it says that the Morpeth to Redesmouth line (which is the Wansbeck Railway) closed in 1966. Because the line which terminated at Hexham used the Wansbeck Railway, it cannot have run after 1966, so this is when the former line closed. I'll add this in now. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions09:54, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
renamed to King Edward VI Grammar School before the 1940s The source uses the current term in 1947, not 1940 or before. So how about, for accuracy, change it to "by 1947" if you can't find the exact date anywhere?
A little bit unclear about "Stobhill housing estate"; a housing estate is a group of houses or sometimes other buildings... is the school located in such a housing estate? Based on what the rest of the article says, Stobhill is actually a section of Morpeth and not just a housing estate.
The church is mostly in the 14th century style and was the main Anglican place of worship in the area until the 1840s These two don't seem related at all, so probably shouldn't be in the same sentence. How about make the first paragraph The ancient Church of England parish church of Morpeth is St Mary's at Highchurch, which was the main Anglican place of worship in the area until the 1840s. The church is mostly in the 14th century style. The grave of Emily Wilding Davison lies in St Mary's graveyard. or something like that, of course adding the refs as necessary?
In 1730, a racecourse was built for horse racing, until 1854, when the racetrack was replaced with St. George's Hospital I think I suggested this wording originally, so apologies for requesting a modification now, but I would suggest somehow clarifying that it didn't take 124 years to build the racecourse!
Demanding consistency for every single ref would be out of the scope of GA and against WP:GACRNOT, but would you consider at least making the references for a single website consistent? Right now, multiple sources on the same website vary from having the base URL as the website and the site name as the publisher, just the base URL as the website, just the site name as the website, or having the website name in the title.
Done I have removed the website when not needed and done other improvements. Ref's for a website should be consistent which each other in terms of formatting etc.
Do you know anything about the publisher, owner, etc. of bookings.landmarktrust.org? Since the website is no longer up and only archived, it's hard for me to find this info myself, but it would be nice to know for reliability.
The issues are dwindling down a lot, really the only reason this review is taking as long as it is is because I am slacking too much, which I apologize for. I'll really try to pick this up for the next week or so. I'm almost done rewriting the lead in my sandbox and I fixed the inconsistent date formats on this page and made a few copy-edits. Will do a few more prose and source checks.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?04:21, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And of course, as soon as I finish the issue list on my computer, I discover the next morning that somehow it was deleted from my computer or not saved or something and I can't seem to recover it... that's annoying. So now I have to try to remember whatever I can of what I had on there and then re-read the whole article again. I apologize for that happening.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?15:48, 18 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I think this is just about everything now. I'm going to put this on hold for you to address the March 3 issues and this probably could pass (although I may do one or two more quick spot-checks). Excellent job addressing the issues so far Dreamy Jazz! This should be pretty much all that's required to meet the GA criteria, although again, I may do a few spot-checks. Also, I am very sad to hear that you are semi-retiring; you have done spectacular work for Wikipedia and are a wonderful person to work with. But I understand that real-life issues happen.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?16:35, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, the reason the file got deleted was because my computer does a weird automatic-restart thing every month or so and I must have not adequately saved the file. The settings on my computer have now been changed so that it doesn't do that!--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?04:10, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Dreamy Jazz: Looks much better now, especially the references section. I've looked over the article and I do not see any issues that would prevent this from passing GA besides the possible unreliable sources I pointed out. So once those are fixed, this should be able to pass.--SkyGazer 512Oh no, what did I do this time?20:29, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Dreamy Jazz: Alright, I've looked over this and made a few minor edits. There are still two things, however: the website is actually the Northumberland website, is it correct to have such a general website for specific towns in Northumberland? Also, I'd suggest replaying the 2nd and 3rd to last sentences in the last paragraph of the lead with Two middle schools and seven primary schools are situated in Morpeth, as well as several churches of Anglican, Roman Catholic, United Reformed and Methodist denominations. There are already quite a few short, choppy sentences in the lead. When these are addressed, I will pass this.--SkyGazer 512My talk page15:25, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Dreamy Jazz: All the criteria appear to be met now, so I believe I'll pass this now. I'm sorry it took so long for this to happen, part of the reason behind that was having to check as many sources as I possibly could to make sure they supported everything, but part of it was just me procrastinating. I know you said that you're semi-retiring (which like I said, I'm sad about), but if you ever decide to come back, which I really hope you do, and improve another article to GA status, I'd suggest you try to get it as close to meeting the criteria as possible before nominating it; this will just make things easier for both you and the reviewer. :-) You worked very, very hard on getting this to GA status, so thank you!--SkyGazer 512My talk page14:57, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Morpethists! Obviously I'm thinking of people like SkyGazer 512 and Dreamy Jazz but all comments are welcome, natch. Yes, this is offtopic for here but I think you might be the right people to ask ... please have a quick look at Cockle Park Tower and its recent edit history and let me know – perhaps at Talk:Cockle Park Tower rather than here? – if you think I have been stupid there? Or, even better, if not stupid!? – Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 10:40, 18 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Hoping to go and have a look at it over the Easter holiday ... our great, great, great grandfather was born there in 1772 so might be interesting. Maybe he left us a note or something? Cheers DBaK (talk) 21:04, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Tagishsimon, i think it was because it was an interesting image to me which was taken in morpeth (the sign is on one of the main roads in morpeth) and there wasn't many suitable images allowing the lead image to be licensed freely (had to be landscape and an image which would still look fine a lot smaller). No particular need for it to be this image (I could change it using the original project files I used to create the image, in a couple of days time when I am back to my computer). If you have any suggestions, feel free to suggest them. If not, I'll see what I can find to replace it when I'm back at my computer. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions16:51, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, and done - also the imagemap extended to provide a link beneath the boat image ... DJ, please feel free to amend any and all of this should you wish. --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:35, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
b (citations to reliable sources): 
c (OR): 
Partly done Added more about the history to the lead (around 3 sentences) Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions 17:35, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
Done? @SkyGazer 512: What do you think now? Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions 17:49, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
Resolved
The issue list is quite long and more will likely be coming, but I would like for you to try to get this done in a week. If you can't get these addressed within that period of time, that's understandable but if these aren't addressed for too long, it may have to be failed. If it is failed, please don't worry; the article has come a very long way since before you started editing it. Quite honestly, it probably would've probably been better if I'd quick failed this to begin with, but I haven't so we might as well try as hard as possible to get it to GA. I've been putting this off for too long!--SkyGazer 512 Oh no, what did I do this time? 16:29, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions 21:15, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
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