Talk:Murray Boltinoff

Boltinoff

If Boltinoff didn't have the tight association with Metamorpho that would have come from editing the comics in which the character was created, then where did his tight association come from in the first place? The association that led him to, due to faulty memory (impeccably cited), claim credit for having created the character? The association that led a comics scholar to describe him as the character's savior? DS (talk) 21:21, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

The Grand Comics Database cites George Kashdan as the editor of Metamorpho's Brave and the Bold appearances and the character's ongoing series. See George Kashdan and Metamorpho at the GCD.

Boltinoff used the character as a backup feature in Action Comics and World's Finest Comics and as a guest-star in the Batman issues of Brave and the Bold. See Murray Boltinoff and Metamorpho at the GCD

Wikipedia is not the place to speculate on where someone's "tight association" came from. Gina Misiroglu can't be too much of a "comics scholar" if she couldn't be bothered to check Boltinoff's actual editorial credits. Boltinoff's faulty memory was probably just that. See the dispute between Bob Haney and Arnold Drake re: the Doom Patrol for another example (or the Stan vs. Jack dispute at Marvel).

Mtminchi08 (talk) 21:35, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

No, what I meant was, if we don't talk about Boltinoff's association with Metamorpho, then how do we get into the issue of Boltinoff's memory problems? Where does Haney enter the story? And without Metamorpho as a lead-in to the memory problems, how can we talk about Shooter? DS (talk) 04:12, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh, and for the record, Misiroglu only credited Boltinoff as Metamorpho's savior, not creator. DS (talk) 04:25, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Actually "for the record", Misiroglu does claim that Boltinoff edited The Brave and the Bold #57. See here. I stand by my statement that she did a poor job with her research. Meanwhile in Les Daniels' DC Comics: Sixty Years of the World's Favorite Comic Book Heroes (1995) page 135 contains this statement from Bob Haney "The most creative single thing I ever did was Metamorpho" "I worked with George Lashdan, who was also a friend of mine and a good editor."

Back Issue! #64 (May 2013) quotes Ramona Fradon "I believe George Kashdsn thought of the basic concept - acharacter who could recombine the four elements to produce different effects - but Bob Haney fleshed him out and wrote the original plot I designed the character after reading Bob's script."

In addition, is it really necessary to include the claims from Haney and Shooter? Boltinoff had a faulty memory? Is that of encyclopedic note? Many people have that problem. Bob Haney himself admits to it in the Catron interview. Shooter's story dates back to 1975. Boltinoff continued to work for DC until 1988. If his mental faculties were as badly impaired as implied here, it's doubtful that he would have been able to continue to work for more than a decade. The gossipy statements of two former employees may be "impeccably cited" but what are they really saying anything of historical note? This borders on WP:NOTSCANDAL and WP:NOTGOSSIP. I am posting a notice on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics to invite other editors to comment on the need to include this information. Mtminchi08 (talk) 21:44, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

His memory is of historical note because it's part of how he did his job as editor, his chief claim to notability. Including details of the person's working habits is the norm for biographical articles. As for "If his mental faculties were as badly impaired as implied here, it's doubtful that he would have been able to continue to work for more than a decade", that's speculative at best. I don't see how WP:NOTSCANDAL or WP:NOTGOSSIP even remotely apply here.

You wrote "if she couldn't be bothered to check Boltinoff's actual editorial credits" - you're not saying that your attribution of the editorship of The Brave and the Bold #57 is based solely on the byline printed in that issue, are you?--NukeofEarl (talk) 16:43, 23 December 2014 (UTC)