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Talk:Myanmar civil war (2021–present)/Archive 3

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List of map edits

In anticipation for May, and Thomas Van Linge (hopefully) posting an updated Myanmar map (One of the main sources for the map on this article), I've made a list of additions and changes for the map organised by importance! (added strikethroughs on edits added to map)

Indisputable edits:

Disputable edits: (Sources may have mistakes or additions unnotable/small in scope (labeled as sis))

Very Disputable Edits: (needs more research or has articles disputing it, but good to note)

IdioticAnarchist (talk) 04:51, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Great list. Added some stuff to the map from the Indisputable points. The other stuff is mostly pretty old and needs some deeper diving and/or fresh sources to clarify or confirm. Good job once again! MrBLOCKiron (talk) 16:56, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Thank you! And thanks for the edits! If you tell me which ones need better/newer sources I can look for them. I tried to organise them by how good their sources were. Also, not to nitpick, but why was RCSS/SSA control over Mong Htar/Loi Lam included while Homein/Loi Moong Merng not? IdioticAnarchist (talk) 18:19, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
I added all the Indisputable and some other points.
Some of the other points i cant confirm however, here's the points & reasons: (feel free to object)
  • The Borysk5 found map is great for finding bases and such, however they cant be confirmed as the source is not really reliable. A lot of points are also just named Point number and i don't know what to do with that info.
  • For the Three Pagodas Pass, a recent article indicates that people draft dodging are being arrested there, presumably by junta forces. So if you can find something more recent to counter that would be appreciated. Here's the recent article.
  • About Homein, the sources are very old and i would take the safest bet here hand leave it unchanged. The Borysk5 map also still reports it as under Tatmadaw control.
  • uh the source for Loi Moong Merng is over 12 years old, i dont think its still accurate.
  • For the UNLFWSEA, i cant really add another side, i dont have the experince
The Very Disputable Edits, indeed does need some more research first. Keep up the great work! MrBLOCKiron (talk) 10:33, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Some very fair points. Thank you! Good map edits. I'll try to look through the other edits for some newer sources.
Addition: Specifically with the Three Pogodas Pass, I think the source you were meaning to link was this, considering it talks about draft-dodging and its recent. From my reading of the article, it seems as though draft-dodgers were arresting by Thai authorities, not Burmese. I could be wrong though. Also, other users editing the map have stated that the map more shows the "de facto" situation on ground. A good example was the Asian Highway 1 before Operation Aung Zeya. Junta forces did have troops stationed along the highway, but goods going through the highway had to pay the KNLA to pass, and the KNLA had fire control over basically the entire highway, so it was shown as KNLA control on the map. If that makes sense. The KNLA in practice control Payathonzu, despite junta soldiers still being stationed there. Of course, I could be wrong and the source I'm using is admittedly over half a year old, and situations in Myanmar can change rather quickly. One last thing, again, not to nitpick -beggars can't be choosers as they say- but the KNLA still controls most of the Dawna Hills. Operation Aung Zeya has only made it to the Taw Naw waterfall, around 1/3rd the way to Myawaddy. Another User, @EmeraldRange suggested that the Karen National Army (Karen Border Guard Force) be shown as a different colour, considering they are a separate entity from both the KNLA and the Tatmadaw and they are notable enough (to me at least) to be their own thing on the map. Of course, beggars can't be choosers and I don't know if you can add a new colour to the map, but it's a suggestion that I feel is notable enough to take into account. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 12:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
After finding a somewhat (2022) recent article, I concede on my research on both Homein and Monghta sub-townships. https://mizzima.com/article/shadows-shan-refugees-thailand
"It thus appeared to be a significant concession from the Burmese government in the RCSS/SSA’s Union-level ceasefire agreement in January 2012: “To allow RCSS/SSA headquarters in Homein sub-township and Mong Hta sub-township.” (Ho Mein/Mong was the former MTA HQ area, about 60 kilometres west of Mong Hta). However, this agreement was never honoured. The Burma Army never retreated from Mong Hta or Ho Mong, and RCSS/SSA was only allowed a small liaison office in Mong Hta."
I do believe, however, that the RCSS/SSA still control the rest of both townships. I don't have much evidence backing this up other than the ceasefire agreement that the Tatmadaw broke. I believe that the RCSS/SSA still control the their bases along the Thai border and the rest of Homein/Monghta sub-townships. Also, this is the only article I can find saying this, so this article may be wrong. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 18:27, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Thank you and @IdioticAnarchist for your work on this! It's great to see. I'm personally swamped IRL with work and it's great to see other editors take over the file too. If you aren't sure how to add a new colour, I can do the KNA addition later this weekend! EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 21:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
While I'm not MrBLOCKiron, and I don't know whether they know how to add a new colour, I'm gonna suppose not. It would be greatly appreciated if you could add the KNA control over Myawaddy and Shwe Kokko when you can (also a few more map updates if you can, like Bhamo being cut off from Myitkyina by KIA, Karen control over the Dawna Range, lack of SSPP/SSA control over Mong Pan or Mong Pawn, and possibly the UNLFW presence in Somra (I kinda wanna see how my research holds up)). Of course, don't feel rushed to do it considering work is more important than editing a Wikipedia map. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 19:53, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm trying to get a handle on the KNA situation myself. There seems to be new things happening and frankly stepping away from following the news for a week makes the whole Myawaddy situation confusing to wrap my head around.
One question for you as someone who dug into it much more is what to label the Indian rebel groups as "Indian rebel groups" seem a unhelpful and WP:POV especially since many are separatists. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 14:59, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
I suppose you can just state that the groups are Valley-based insurgent groups (VBIGs), as I've seen them labeled in several articles (considering most Meitei-majority groups are active in the Imphal Valley). Or Indian Ethnic Armed Organisations (IEAOs). Or just as the United National Liberation Front of Western South East Asia (UNLFW) and allies, and do the footnote solution of including the list of allies in the footnote (considering CorCom and UNLFW tend to occupy the same bases).
On the KNA situation, from what I understand, the Tatmadaw occupy the 275 LIB base west of the city and jointly occupy the city with KNA, while the KNA control Shwe Kokko and jointly occupy Myawaddy with the Tatmadaw. I forget the source, so don't quote me on it, but only around 150 Tatmadaw soldiers are in the city and LIB base, while upwards of 7,000 KNA soldiers occupy Myawaddy and Shwe Kokko. Considering the size difference, I think Myawaddy could be shown as just KNA control, considering the KNA are definitely the main force in the city. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 15:09, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
I think I'm leaning towards showing Myawaddy as joint Tat-KNA control just because they the KNA is allegedly/presumably giving junta access? But Shwekoko seems more properly KNA control. Althought I guess you can also show it as KNA being junta-alligned (for now)? EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 16:27, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
Also KK Park is under control of KNA, south of Myawaddy. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 13:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
Also, small but important thing brought up by @Hjks7121, Hakha and Falam are switched up on the map. Hakha is east of Thantlang, not Falam. IdioticAnarchist (talk) 04:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
It's now fixed on the interactive map, but Hakha is still switched with Falam on the main map at the top of the page. Hjks7121 (talk) 19:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

How can I update the map?

I wish to update the map, in the image and in the other section when updates happen. I know for Example, multiple Chin towns have been captured and the situation is changed. How can I update it? UnJapóLliure (talk) 13:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I ain't too sure on how to update the map, but one of the editors of the map, @EmeraldRange, stated that "The actual editing usually requires using some vector software for this civil war map- I use Inkscape." IdioticAnarchist (talk) 13:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
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